Yeah, that’s my general impression with it, too.
But it’s… the future! And it’s so secure, you can’t even run Xeyes on it. 
Being secure is like closing your eyes. so you can’t see what’s happening. 
nope… Cinnamon was the only desktop that could set different scaling factors on separate screens (using xorg) while KDE couldn’t. I had real trouble with a laptop, I wanted to run KDE but the scaling was unbearable. Back then, when I got the laptop in 2020, gnome wayland could not yet scale per screen adequately as I recall, thats why I tried cinnamon. Now in 2022, gnome wayland works flawlessly for me. I don’t know about KDE wayland, something to try.
That was the whole discussion back then…
If you like Cinnamon, that’s an argument against Wayland, not for it.
After years of expectation, Wayland in many distributions and on many desktops has still not actually arrived. I think it’s taking the same route as Gnome 43.
I like it but there is screen tearing and artifacts when scaling on multiple screen using cinnamon and xorg. Thats not the case on gnome wayland. At least thats my “real world” experience, not youtube
I could just refer to what I read on ArchWiki:
Use Wayland
Prefer using Wayland over Xorg. Xorg’s design predates modern security practices and is considered insecure by many. For example, Xorg applications may record keystrokes while inactive.
If you must run Xorg, it is recommended to avoid running it as root. Within Wayland, the XWayland compatibility layer will automatically use rootless Xorg.
I might not be able to point out an specific “incidence” compromising my security by having used X11. Or I might have been unaware of it.
What I am asking is, if it is true that Wayland intent to remedy some faulty behavior of Xorg and make the system more secure, no matter your personal risk model, why not use it?
Is there any reason for not to, beside lack of compatibility of some pieces of software that might be relevant to some but not to others?
Unsurprisingly, that statement is true for 100% of people who so far pointed out to me that Wayland is better because it is safer. Thank you for being another data point in my experiment.
That’s a pretty big “beside”… Most people use computers in order to benefit from the software running on these computers.
It’s like asking: is there any reason for turning your computer on, given that leaving if off is safer, beside some pieces of software not working that might be relevant to some but not to others?
let’s turn it around then, if you know it better… what makes you say it’s not safer
Yeah, but I don’t have the burden of proof, I’m quite happy with Xorg. I may even concede that Wayland is safer. In what way? Haven’t the foggiest idea, which puts me in the same category as every Wayland user I’ve ever interacted with.
The analogy doesn’t hold.
Lets put it like this:
-
I want my computer on and use it.
-
This can be done more securely by using Wayland no matter what my risk model is or if my security has been compromised by using X11 or not.
-
There are some lack of compatibility with some pieces of software using Wayland.
-
For my personal use case these pieces of software are not relevant thereby not impeding me to perform my everyday tasks and enjoying my workflow on my preferred DE: GNOME
Are there any compelling “objective” reasons for not preferring the use of Wayland over Xorg?
So far I have seen only personal preferences put forward as “arguments”.
1 Like
You do understand that preferences aren’t objective?
Even that’s a subjective statement. Completely equivalent to:
- I want Xeyes.
If you are using Wayland, a quick way to see if a given application is running ‘natively’, or is hosted inside the shared XWayland X11 server, is to run the xeyes program. If the ‘eyes’ move to follow the cursor when it is in your application’s window, then the app is using X11; if not, it is using Wayland.
The eyes will be watching you when running firefox ^-^
You can also run the xlsclients program (at a terminal, as the regular user) to get a list of all applications using the XWayland server.
Yeah, but otherwise Xeyes do not work on Wayland.
I run Xeyes on Xorg, and I always know on what screen my mouse pointer is. On Wayland, there is no way to do that. Wayland is not yet ready for everyday use.
1 Like
That seems to be a very compelling reason for not to use Wayland then.
As some sage member of the community would say:
Your system, your rule!
At the end, nobody seems to be disputing that Wayland is a more secure protocol than Xorg.
I run TTY, it’s no BLOAT and very secure!
1 Like
No, just like nobody seems to be disputing that turning your computer off is safer than having it on. 
The point is, just because something is safer (or perceived in that way), does not make it more useful. A knife without a blade is also safer.
That said, as mentioned above, I’ve yet to speak to anyone who can give me a a concrete example how Wayland has improved his or her security, compared to Xorg, including yourself. So Wayland’s increased security might very well be purely theoretical and without any practical implication. In that case, it would be as useful as a chocolate teapot, which happens to be my general impression with it at present.
But the question is not turning off the computer. Something you seem to go back to all the time.
The question is to have it on and to use it more securely.
It wouldn’t be a knife then!
I would suggest you to put forward your arguments to its developer then.
Whose developer? Wayland’s? Why would I do that? Why would I care? I don’t even use Wayland. I don’t even know who develops Wayland.
No, no, the question is how to have Xeyes, because why would you have your computer on and not run Xeyes?
You keep going back to this security, yet nobody (not even yourself, admittedly) knows what that is all about.
I thought you said that you were “open-mindedly” interested in the why or why not of it.
Perhaps not. But I am willing to learn and try new things. If they are shown to be better than then the old ways of doing things, that’s something won.
To gain something, it requires to get out of you comfort zone and break old habits.