KDE "dropping" X11 for Wayland on Plasma 6 discussion and the alternatives in that case

From a security standpoint - strongly disagree with that statement.
Not having any malicious applications running is not a solution, because it is simply impossible (to guarantee).

Physically removing ability of given system to even do something malicious - is definitely a security first principles, other things like usability, philosophy, sanity etc - is 2nd degree question.

Not to say that it has anything to do with Wayland, because i agree with that statement:

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In that case, the best and most logical thing to do is to turn off your computer, permanently. No malicious program can run if your computer is turned off. Disable the PSU, just in case. Security first!

…and also last.

One problem is a lack of admin configuration for Wayland.
The configuration would be nice and flexibel, because it allows admin to control individual Wayland client and permission, what he needs.

If without configuration, Wayland client uses hard restriction by default. It does not fit everyone what they need.

If I understand correctly, Wayland is just a protocol like the internet protocol (IP) in root and has no logical implementation and no function, but different DE compositors (e.g. Kwin for KDE, Mutter for gnome, etc …) do job, not Wayland job.

It seems to me that different DE compositors are running in competition and offer different features.

Wayland system looks like microservice architecture. Xorg system is like monolithic architecture or All in One.

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Yea, the community does have it’s share of gatekeepers and those that just kinda like to start arguments. Fortunately, you can also find better sub-communities (like this one, for the most part).

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Yeah, that’s my hope for Wayland… If some compositor manages to implement stuff like permissions on the Android operating system, that would be awesome.

For example, when you run Xeyes for the first time, you get prompted with something like:

“Xeyes wants to know the position of its window and your global cursor position. Allow?”

That would be enough for me to use Wayland.

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Let’s hope someone starts adding this soon, as right now active development is definitely not heading this way.

Jeez Wayland! :rofl:

It does some good advantages for my use cases though. Adaptive sync works and I notice a good amount of improvement in latency, especially when playing games. Thee whole experience is snappier and so going to X11 to “fix” this problem feels bad. For some reason, I am also gaining performance in some games (higher framerates).

But yes, I understand that a lot of people dislike wayland.

I know i know, just posted it here so maybe someone could help faster, coz that’s a bit ridiculous :upside_down_face:

P.S. Welcome aboard! :rocket: :enos_flag:

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had a try solving session with this on telegram without a solution…

fascinating discussion; I have no horse in this race.

Thoughts:
*the savvier distros (I’m looking at you Fedora) will offer X11 and Wayland options for all their DE’s as not to alienate and it may take a $100,000 yearly infusion to pull it off. others will follow then taper off. Don’t feel safe betting on this, though.

*even wayland lovers know there is nothing inherently wrong with X11. X11 brought everyone to this point. wayland is the girl in the ‘walking by’ meme where the boyfriend checks her out and the girlfriend gives him a look.

*X11 lovers have to remember when ‘innovation’ (so-called in name only many times) begins to snowball you will have to get out if its way because poof it will be soup du jour. Distro developers are throwing into the hive mind on this one, parroting the same justifications. —An observation, not a judgement; perhaps they are right

*if it’s simply a security issue, linux and its users will adapt.

*if it’s simply a performance issue with Wayland then it will evolve. that’s how linux always rolls.

*at the end of the day will the average linux user (couple games here and there, work productivity, a browser, no choppines) even notice the switcheroo?

—I wish my two favorite distros (Endeavour and Solus) had init options because systemd…but I love being to able to fix/troubleshoot things with systemctl so there ya go…

Everytime I have to boot up my Windows disk to update it I feel humiliated, compromised, and cheap. When this happens to Linux users they will bail. Wayland doesn’t worry me. I have to learn more about how it works though.

the only thing important to moi is the usual: how many CVEs and how many eyeballs on the code(?).

2 cents from a Budgie user

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Hah yea, you are right about that!

Thanks for a warm welcome and extra exposure to my issue.

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Most likely evolve into a similar ugly mess as X11 because it is forced to implement something which wasn’t desired and designed from the start, just saying.

Display tech (X11 and Wayland) are over my pay grade, for sure. However, I hope that the current devs have learned from the past and are not as brain dead as purported. (yeah, I know…that is probably like wishing politics made sense).

FYI

I use OBS Studio often for screen recording and sharing including my mouse movement.

I realize that there is a possible solution for you how to track a mouse position on Wayland without root permission, DE doesn’t matter.

Ofc, OBS Studio can record a global mouse movement on Wayland in my multiple monitors, that depends on OBS capture setting:

  • When I enable the option “Show Cursor” , OBS knows where my mouse cursor is and displays it in its virtuell screen.

  • When I disable the option “Show Cursor”, OBS hides the mouse cursor in the virtuell screen.

That is no doubt that OBS has the function like xeyes.

Ofc, it can detect the location of any app and prompts me to select an app for screen capture.

I investigated OBS source code a bit → My guess: It uses pipewire to be able to capture the position of the mouse pointer.

If you can read C well, maybe you can look at it.

I don’t understand what the problem is to get the position of the mouse pointer.

Plasma offers to press the Windows key (not sure if it is called Windows key, but I mean the left neighbor key of the left ALT key) in order to get shown the mouse position. This works fine in Wayland.

Just see that in Plasma settings it is called Meta key

Look at the issue

@kresmir needs a function of xeyes, it does not work on Wayland.
You can try xeyes, you will understand.

I tried xeyes and I don’t understand. Why should I use it?

You do not need to use it because your eyes are fine.

I know that there are many people who have eyes problem for example: Different visual field defects/restrictions. They see at an angle of very less than 160 degrees and find a mouse difficult.