My mum uses Linux Mint, completely painlessly.
I think the only logical thing you can say to me right now is: “my mum is better than your mum, she uses Arch” 
6 Likes
As a student in 21st century Indian city, I guarantee you a good majority of schools schools stick to good old “cracked” Windows 
While the board syllabus uses mostly cross platform FOSS, schools are free to come up with their own curriculum for most part, except for the final four years of schooling. All during my school days, I have attended my CS classes on Windows systems, learning softwares like Word, Excel, Powerpoint. Photoshop, Logo, Qbasic, Visual Basic etc etc.
I see Linux distros in schools at those places, where a person has to maintain the system regularly, simply because I bet its more convenient than Windows. My school had a server where you could access study resources. The server, as well as the class computers, which had to be managed by those contract IT people, ran Ubuntu. Every other computer that wasn’t under the management of those IT people ran Windows. (i.e. labs, teacher computers, computers connected to screens in halls)
At CS related universities, there is greater userbase for Linux, for the same reason. Developing on Linux is many times much smoother than Windows, and so most CS students have to at some point or other use Linux distros.
tl;dr
Students here use Windows because schools use it, and because their home computer probably runs Windows. There is no incentive to run Linux unless they’ve got a friend like me constantly asking them to switch.
Edit :
reminds me, recently on a classmate’s birthday, I texted her, asking to switch to Linux.
5 Likes
And part of the biggest misconception about Alternative OSs …
They do not replicate Windows they are alternative ways to use a Computer.
And I see another huge misconception on all this DE/TOOLKIT/THEMING/TOOLS/GUIS stuff.
If I do use a computer I do it for a reason, may it is writing novels, creating pictures, programming, video editing, writing letters, running office tasks and if your system is configured nicely you do not use the system to play all the time with the DE configurations, find the best icon theme… you use applications, not the DE, not the OS your goal is to handle your needed applications. The OS DE/WM; is second and not on the focus of your workflow.
On the other part… the setup and configurations… as someone never get used to windows it is very hard to get used to setup and configurations on windows i feel like digging in the dark, without the option to see what really is happening under the hood.
I think the only question about why the Linux Desktop sucks is related to why there is such a fight about different Desktop Environments?? we do not lag of DEs we lag of an easy way to configure common hardware on the systemlevel automatically, we need interfaces open for DE to be used as a source for setup options on hardware and set options for workflows.
All needed code is there already it is only cluttered all over the place.
And indeed we do not need to fight here we can have a friendly discussion and we can have different opinions.
From the perspective of Development, i can see that currently there is a huge change in the way different Distros work, it is not a fight about who is superior over the other it is more about sharing information on how to get stuff working and helping each other to solve problems.
Communication has changed in a very good way, and we are proud to be part of this changes.
The same counts for the Community, that is part of it in the same way, we are open and welcome everyone.
12 Likes
Exactly; this forum isn’t even that bad, but seeing the western Linux community as a whole, it is very much this, and without being helpful, just gatekeeping and elitism.
1 Like
I am not saying Linux should (tho I am pointing out what would be needed for it to happen), I am saying that we, as in the Linux community, need to come to terms wit the fact that we are not “better” or “smarter”, and more importantly we need to understand WHY most people don’t use Linux and realize it’s not because somebody hasn’t spent 2 hours informing about privacy concerns or the blessings of Open Source to the person in question.
As someone who has worked with Windows support since 1996 I might be biased, but the whole point is that Windows tend to… just work on modern machines and if it doesn’t there tend to be hardware failings most of the time. Same with Mac OS.
But yes, imagine moving to Linux; it is not that simple. Even if you pick a “recommended newbie distro” you have to…
- Know how to disable safe boot, most likely
- Know how to use BIOS to boot into an USB stick
- Realize you have to choose between at least 3 DEs most of the time
- Realize you have a 50 / 50 chance to ever make your printer work, period
- Realize that if you ask the wrong question in the wrong forum you will be very rudely responded to.
Anyway again my two main points are
- Linux will never be a mainstay OS for the desktop. It is nothing wrong with that per se, but we must realize why, and stop imagining Windows Users flocking to Linux at any minor issue with Windows.
- We must aknowledge WHY the majority won’t switch and why they have the priorities they have.
That is all, really.
(And yes I will install endeavour eventually, I just have to take the time AND decide if I am doing Xfce or Cinnamon again… as usual 
)
1 Like
yes i can agree in some points … but the reason “why” mostly hardware just works on windows is because hardwrae producers build hardware to work on Windows and in most cases providing the Drivers and nice tools to configure them in addition.
The reason why a user needs to go to the trouble of switching to Linux is caused by the fact that users simply start using what is installed on the device they buy, and by that reason they are used to that OS.
This is not the point at all for the “Linux Desktop” and i can not agree that we should go to replicate Windows to make it easy to switch to Linux, as it is different and not the better clone of the same thing.
And most of what you refering to is what i mention as automatic hardware support and a working infrastructure to handle hardware options independent from the Desktop you carry on top of the system.
To be able to use different Desktop Environments is one of the attractive things on Linux or not?
This is mainly what drives development for EndeavourOS we try to proved a working system where users can choose and setup a Desktop Environment that fits their needs and workflow.
still an endeavourous journey not ended
And the way in which users are treated is also changing massively, and especially through projects like EndeavorOS and our mother Antergos where this started already years before.
3 Likes
Oh I agree with all of this, my point, yet again is that IF the Linux community (and that’s a genuine “if”, not a “we must do this”) want to make Linux a contender for the masses outside of Chrome OS and Android, a massive overhaul, a rigid standard and yes, less choices would be neccesary across the board. I am not saying it’s a good thing, I am saying it is a realistic demand.
It is more important to realize that Linux is NOT a serious contender for most users and that it will never be and then accept that and improve what we have from that perspective.
Again, my big beef is with people genuinely not understanding the priorities of the average computer user; the seemingly genuine inability to grasp why someone wouldn’t immediately jump ship from Windows of Mac and learning 43474575 new things just because of “privacy and open source”. They are just not valid arguments for a vast VAST majority of people.
I will install Endeavour on this machine eventually, it’s just that my fingers haven’t been itching about it yet
I will have to play thru all the games I bought on Christmas sale, and then decide how to repartition this,and then… you know the drill.
1 Like
Absolutely. The more Linux is made to function like windoze, the less reason there will be to use Linux.
Linux is good as it is. It’s not perfect, it has many flaws (like the crappy kernel), but it does not need to be something that it isn’t. It certainly does not have to be more like windoze, heavens forbid!
And if that’s the cost of having more people use Linux, than I say it’s not worth it, and we probably do not want to attract such users.
And this “stuff on windoze just works” is absolute 
. It is far easier to be productive on Linux than on windoze.
1 Like
not 100% on topic but i think one of the most interesting ideas on package management i hear so far (not only because the guy is the i3 dev)
It is not only the kernel that is in a way “crappy” also the way packages work on arch is not the one and only way we should think of. I know flatsnappaks are bad … but it could be done in a good way
2 Likes
ALPM is perfect. I don’t need anything else 
1 Like
1 Like
When I was in highschool all the student usable computers either ran Mac in the art department or Novell Linux everywhere else with just a few Windows systems sprinkled in.
What is “Normal” and what the average user is use to I suppose is a matter of perspective. Growing up around an IT guy I was introduced to redhat, Oracle databases,etc. Fairly early so using Linux wasn’t too weird for me. My grandfather isn’t super tech savy and loves his fedora machine but he also has no issue learning something a bit different.
Linux isn’t windows and people will have to get over that in transition. Going in with the right mindset is key.
2 Likes
Ubuntu 21.10 has Firefox as snap on a clean install. I just found out because the KeepassXC Browser-Extension refused to work (as does Gnome Extensions and others) because snap (and flatpak) lacks “Native messaging support”. Use a browser-flatpak under wayland and due to waylands restrictions KeepassXC autotype doesn’t work either and you’re back to copy & paste. 
Why? People might be attracted to the whole idea of “open source” without realizing that it comes with its own set of deficiencies. And then, nobody bothers to publish their “back to Windows” stories. At least, not on Linux sites.
1 Like