Ideas and discussion on the future of the forum

No, I was actually curious about the Change on the servers, but I guess you mean the influx in users. :wink:

Oh that, It’s because I treat computers as ladies (yeah I’m single). Like them, servers or computers change. So after a big upgrade or a massive config or a security patch we leave it as it is and get ready to face whatever comes next (mostly headaches though). Because the damn things run on Windows.

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:scream:

Sacrilege… :rofl:

That’s just not right! :roll_eyes:

Here some points I would make, many of which have already been made by others.

  • The number of members we have asking for excessive help is very low in the grand scheme of things
  • We encourage people to ask questions all the time. This will invite some degree of vampirism but it is partially unavoidable if we are to remain true to who we are.
  • Someone asking lots of questions is OK. Asking questions is a good way to learn.
  • When someone annoys you, feel free to ignore them.
  • What makes this forum great is how friendly and welcoming we are. Telling people to search first or stop asking so many questions is the opposite of that.
  • We have a lot of people here who are willing to help someone, even when that person asks too many questions. Let someone else handle it if it bothers you. Even if it feels like a waste of time, it is their time to waste.
  • When someone is completely overboard, let the moderators handle it. That is what we are here for.

I know this next point will likely be one many disagree with but I would actually prefer newbies not try to search for answers. I have seen more issues caused by searching and trying to apply the wrong solution than I can count.

When you are new, you simply don’t have the knowledge yet to figure out if a solution applies to you or not. There are tons of identical error messages that have many different causes. I would much rather have someone come and ask a question and get an answer. Even if that answer is simply a link to the solution. At least then we have an experienced person pointing them to an answer that is actually related to their problem.

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I agree with all those willing to keep the forum as it is, open and friendly. Now, sharing my own experience, I have found myself much less active lately on the forum because there are much more questions, new users, and yes… from time to time repetitions of the same questions and issues.
But I consider it a minimal price to pay for keeping the forum open. I don’t read so much of the posts as I used to do, I don’t interact with the community as much as I did since a few month ago, but I am still here - everyday - , still supporting EOS, and my greatest fear would be to see the forum becoming more like the Manjaro’s one.
As many said before me: no need to answer to all. Help those you feel you can help, and keep it open. Also my 2 cents… and I want to continue to love EOS, not just for the Distro itself but also for the people involved in it.

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It has been a long time since I joined these forums, but I seem to recall receiving one or more welcome messages. Perhaps the first of these messages could be edited to include text like the following:

We are so happy that you have joined the EndeavourOS forums, and we look forward to your participation. We pride ourselves on having the friendliest forums in the Linux world. Everyone here is eager to help. Should you have any questions about how to use EndeavourOS, or if you encounter any problems, here are some tips on how to get the help you need most efficiently. You might save this message and refer back to it before you post a new issue.

  1. Blah
  2. More blah
  3. Even more blah

Yes…if we have a new user it would be nice if there was an automated message that they get when they sign up and log into the forum for the first time. @Bryanpwo I don’t know whether that is possible?

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Repetition of questions are inevitable on any larger forum. Users can appeal all day about using search to find already asked questions, even Discourse have built in search while creating, reading FAQ, guidelines etc, but there will always be a new user who is going to ask something that is already asked or without any useful info, but it is expected. Starting from myself, what I can do is point to a user how he can actually post information related to a problem or point him to related question. For some, this can be annoying, but this is a step where user is learning and patience is needed or should we just close a category with questions and create a pop up with arch wiki. This applies with appropriate communication, for posts where someone is demanding or plain rude, from my perspective should be deleted without any explanations but this is job for moderators, not for us (users) and I am sure they are doing great job.

I think they have this on the Arch forums. The message you receive is “RTFM!!” :upside_down_face:

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That’s a little too hostile! That’s not going to fly here. :wink:

Edit: If a new user signs up and the first time they log into the forum it should either open a linked page to this info or they get an automated message with the info. I don’t know what’s possible as i don’t know this platform well enough.

From what I read, it’s possible to edit the Discobot greeting here:

Admin > Customize > Text

There is also a Discourse-automation plugin that claims additional functionality: “Triggers automations at specific dates, periodically or on specific events.”

If we put this info in an automated message, how many people do you think will actually read it?

This is a dilemma that I’ve been struggling with since July 2020. As a matter of fact, I considered turning this forum into a purely technical forum but that plan received a lot of resistance from you.

We can create all kinds of ways to “improve the quality of the posts” but it will take that human factor out of this project. By creating these solutions, we are going down the same road as other distros did, I’m not naming them but you know which ones I’m referring to, and to be honest, if we go THAT road, then all the fun dies for me.

I just had a thought about this and I do understand your point of view, but my defence is, EndeavourOS isn’t anyone’s paid job over here, including myself. Just be selective in helping out someone else.

I DO feel your concerns and pain and I’m glad that I know your opinion about this. But I have a strategy in mind where the fun aspect of this project is going to get in the spotlight and having these walls of notifications before a member can enter does not fit in this strategy.

It was you who told me one and a half years ago that EndeavourOS should go on as it did. A place where everybody should feel welcome and have fun with each other in a friendly vibe.

So, before you go and attack me, I would appreciate it to let the past two and half years run by you for a a moment and then think about the consequences these changes would bring.

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No way, we need fun! :partying_face:

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Even I think it needs to stay fun. I agree with you 100%! Lately I have been simply moving threads that are posted in a more technical part of the forum to the newbie section if they are vampirish. This way it stays out of the eyes technically inclined and keeps it in a much busier place. Even newbies help newbies every so often.

PS Anyone that has TL3 status can also move a thread BTW.

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your pull request is welcome at any time:
https://github.com/endeavouros-team/EndeavourOS-calamares/tree/main/calamares/branding/endeavouros

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A few points in no particular order:

EnOS has positioned itself fairly clearly within the Arch ecosystem - it’s terminal-centric, and therefore not a consumer-type OS or something for gamer n00bs. This helps set an expectation.

Answering the same questions over and over does not help anyone. It’s an easy way to rack up a Solutions score, but linking to documentation is far more efficient than a canned/copy-paste answer (which most times is redundant - hyperlinks exist for a reason!).

“Friendly” also needs expectations management - what one person sees as “friendly” another sees as spoon-feeding, and spoon-feeding is not a great approach for maintaining anyone’s sanity.

Being told “don’t help if you don’t want to” is only fine if the helper doesn’t care about a project or community. This is at odds with the fact that people help because they care, and they want to help.

Maintaining an active community takes time and effort, but when it works you end up with a central core of enthusiastic supporters, and their activity makes new members feel welcome.

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Sorry, I don’t use M$-Git.

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There is no alternative to “don’t help if you don’t want to help”, except forcing people to help, which is neither ethical nor feasible. Those who want to help will do so.

Also, my point wasn’t about not being helpful (I certainly try my best to help people), but about choosing with whom not to engage. If you find someone annoying, offensive, a “help vampire”, etc… there is no obligation to invest time and effort into answering questions from such a person. I see no issue with ignoring people for whatever reason, as tech support is not our job here. We help people because we want to.

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