This forum has always been a great place to look for help with issues on a new install of EndeavourOS. Or even issues encountered by long-time users. MANY regulars seem to genuinely enjoy offering assistance to those in need of help.
BUT, a lot of posts recently seeking help seem to look like this: "My EOS is very laggy. All I did was update. WHY? “WIFI doesn’t work anymore. HELP!” “No sound when playing YouTube in Firefox. PLEASE HELP”
Seasoned users here WANT to help. Help others help you.Including logs and system specs will go a very long way in getting the help you need.
@discobot you should hint users on posting logs and needed infos anyway! Like if new user is posting remind about if one asking for help to provide the needed info…
While I appreciate the message and the post you’ve made, I have doubts it will reach the people that it wants to. From what I have personally noticed, people asking for help are typically new on the forum and, very often, new to Linux too. They might not even know how to get these system logs and post them for the experts among us to go through and check.
I know it will be annoying for many, but I personally believe we will just have to ask people for that information and tell them how to do it each and every time. The wiki page for getting system logs and whatnot is something that should be updated regularly, which I think it is already, since we can point to that page when someone has trouble and they don’t provide all required information.
I hear ya. That’s why I posted it here in the “Newbie” section. While I know the log tutorial is available up top under “help”, I just don’t know how many newbies will actually click that. And further more, how many of those will know what “forum log tool” even means.
We also have the issue that Search Engines will bring people over who are searching for a specific answer to a problem and that just directs them here who think that they can just get a quick answer because hey everything has to be done NOW
The welcome app has button named Logs for troubleshooting.
This could be a too cryptic button name, anyone has suggestion for less cryptic name for newbies?
I’m not sure how you can be any more straight forward than this. The issue is the USER. Most come from Windows and have no idea of what a log is.
People are used to just asking and getting answers and they expect that they should just be able to do that and not have to put a lot of “Time” to investigate and research the issue they are having. People will go to Google before they go to their Logs because that is what has been the way for them.
Yeah, it is hard to reach all users about troubleshooting, regardless of what you do.
But many here have the expertise and we have some tools too for helping others. And we’ve seen here as well that people do learn when we help them. I’d say that’s worth the effort.
Its already on two different tabs on the welcome app. (After install, Assistant) So I don’t think there is much more for the Welcome app that frankly most people probably turn off after the first boot. I honestly think @joekamprad is more in line with having it setup for when you post that it tells you to post logs or something I mean at the end of the day is going to be up to the USER if they even want to bother. With AI right now everyone just want to ask a question get an answer and have it magically fix everything.
I agree if it were possible on the first post for the system to automatically have that response would be great. But what about the people who post on a topic because they think they are having the same problem? Personally i would prefer that people create their own topic.
The first thing I done before I installed Linux OS is find out the tools to get logs or common troubleshooting commands in case I get stuck and on my own. I found the Endeavour OS logs guide before I made an account on the forums back then, along with finding guides (some of them Listed below) and made notes myself.
Maybe other newbies (As this post is in the newbie area) may find these threads interesting like I did although these are not log grabbing threads as that has already been listed.
Users can still post here for help obviously and not trying to force the RTFM mentality, this is just personally how I done things when I was new and of course this is a lot of information if someone has an issue right now to be fixed and may confuse some others if they are new but I could never write answers to questions in as much detail as others did in these posts.
So maybe these are useful things for newbies to read in free time to prepare for long term Linux use and avoiding potential issues or future frustrations as Arch linux and based distros are a bit more hands-on than some other distros (Or Windows and MacOS) since Arch is originally DIY in design and a lot of new users are unaware of this. The new users who don’t mind a bit of reading (As new users are very varied in knowledge and all sorts of skill backgrounds) likely don’t know these threads exist either.
all interesting threads I actually return to and all noobs should indulge themselves in the local flavor, or ethos, if you will, of Endeavour. Mine at the bottom was only made interesting by all the smart people who volunteered technical knowledge and had patience with my noob package manager questions.
We have an unreal amount of good, stand-up people here.
edit: always did like that guy
For me I am sure I will have to write a help post one day at some point. And at the same time if some people never asked questions before me in these linked posts I wouldn’t have found the information and may have made a post myself. I was pretty confused about yay prompts until I come across your question, that thread was after I installed a Linux OS and used it though, I come across my first yay package installation asking me these questions and didn’t continue until I found out what those questions where first and come across your post.
Back then I tested every type of Linux before choosing one, 6+ desktop envioronments etc, I even looked up questions on the internet such as “differences between windows and linux” to see the common things that differed and read the about page of the distros to find out what they were about or the vision or “philosophy” behind their projects. To find out as you say the “flavour” and “Ethos” so I knew what I was getting in to if I pick an OS, I even became familiar with the communities too so I got an idea of what EOS forums was like (And Arch among others) before making an account.
There were even more posts I used than the ones I linked but as the forum created a big summary box around each one I didn’t want to add too many of them. I found the useful on a lot of threads I come across too both as comments to threads or a thread creator, there was also a good one from him regarding backup procedures but I didn’t link that as that one is general good file habits not specific to Linux. The also had various good posts, especially the gaming guide, and he is also how I ended up looking in to hashing drives and files for comparison among others.
that’s the beauty about a forum search, isn’t it? I would not have known @fbodymechanic 's monthly maint, etc. This is stole outright in a note app and use monthly still.
We are of the same mind on how to search, when to search, and for what when you are making a digital lie change for sure. Was going to mention as well. Didn’t rub everyone the right way, but he was always nice to me and was a font of knowledge as well. great reply
Most of the issues people are having are not related to maintaining their system as far as I’m concerned. I think this stuff about maintaining Arch is over stated. There isn’t really much one needs to do. One can follow this all they want and they’ll still run into issues unrelated. Most things are lack of knowledge, making mistakes and blindly following results from google searches or reddit or answers from other distros that aren’t Arch based. Asking for help and not providing the info needed is the basis for this topic.
I’m unsure if you are referring to my post or not but this is actually something I agree with, the only linux distros I have used is EOS and Manual Arch. For me I have had no issues so far except for a KDE update recently which broke video output on my screens due to calibration colour profiles.
I would say maintaining is important but not difficult (Hence agree with overstated). But all of this comes with knowledge with what you are working with otherwise it all breaks down or won’t perform as well as it could. Maybe my perspective of maintaining is different but I see a lot knowledge I gain about a tool I use as a part of maintenance in some way. So I think we likely have the same opinion with this potentially but different perspective of the same thing.
I agree, having more knowledge about your system helps in troubleshooting and filtering out what is definitely not the cause of the issue or what to avoid in advance to avoid breaking it yourself. Knowing the correct sources of information for your OS I would consider as good maintenance. If someone is unsure then primary source is EOS for everything, with more knowledge you can safely follow instructions from other sources if you know what you are doing.
While I agree, the responses in this thread indicate the information to send logs for support was always available from within the OS and from the forum via help and a pinned thread. So everything is exactly the same as before this thread was even made. The issue isn’t people not providing the info needed, the issue is people are either ignoring the information regarding posting logs (Which we can’t prove) so they don’t post them, or they can’t see how to do it, or they want a quick answer. I can’t see how info for sending logs could be made easier or noticeable so this topic may as well be closed.
I work in IT and we get the same issues daily where we have to remind people, sometimes the same person multiple times as they intentionally don’t help and some of these people will end up on linux forums too, or staff don’t want to spend time sending information to help (they tell us this themself sometimes) and just want us to fix and prioratise them over people who do send the information we need, including not making a ticket and just calling. I’m afraid this is just common behavior in many people and we can only keep reminding users about logs in replies.
In case anyone wonders I am not advocating the Arch forum way and don’t mind or care about new users posting questions if they are stuck or need help. I feel a lot of knowledge is gained from threads questions and everyone can learn. I just feel a lot of good information is hidden in threads that can be searched for and information regarding logs is not an issue.
This is a majority of the issue. Everyone thinks because 20 years ago you could put a title into Google and it would give you a Decent Answer. Today’s google is run by AI and since its not actually intelligent it’s answers are not accurate or good anymore and most don’t understand its irrelevant anymore.
Another issue is peoples basic understanding of Linux. Most think its just like MS, all the same. We who are seasoned know that there is a Huge difference between Debian based systems and Arch based systems while a good amount of New Users don’t seem to understand that. They think a package issue is the same across the board like it is with Windows.
I don’t think there is much more we can do but to be ready and willing to continue with our attitude of help. Which unfortunately will mean we must sound like a broken record and continue to tell people what they need in order for us to help them. Because no matter how visible you make something people are not going to use that which they don’t understand or know how to use.
Lastly Most coming from window’s have No idea about logs and where they are or what they even are. Much less how to read them or even post them. Newer users don’t know stuff like grep and other tools to help narrow the field’s of search to help troubleshoot.
So in my conclusion while frustrating at times We just have to be that source of Information for them. After all helping others learn that information is part of the reason the forums exist in the first place. So while it can be frustrating to have to continually tell people what is needed and how to do it, it is the purpose of our existence here.
guy 
also had various good posts, especially the gaming guide, and he is also how I ended up looking in to hashing drives and files for comparison among others.