Am I missing something? Talk me out of EndeavourOS if I am!

General system Newbie
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Heyo!

Straight to it. I’m seriously eyeing EOS. Before the switch I want to make sure that it’s the right choice for a daily driver/game machine and I can see a bunch of positives, but I’m wanting to make sure I’m not overlooking any considerations. Basically, I’m asking to “talk me out of EOS” instead of the usual “why should I use EOS”.

After I got the Steam Deck last December and saw how far Linux had finally come, omg, the Linux gaming era has arrived! Since Dec, I’ve been dual booting Mint and Win10 and will probably nuke Windows all together on the next distro hop. Windows’ privacy, security, and “we know what you want and you will accept it” attitude of Microsoft has me really annoyed; only DCS keeps me back.

@ Main reasons for wanting to hop to EOS:

Arch based. I’d like to match my distro to the Deck to have a seamless time learning to use either of them.

I don’t have to build EOS from the ground up like Arch.

KDE. It feels much more natural to me. Cinnamon isn’t bad, there’s just something about it that doesn’t agree with me. I can’t really describe why.

Customizability. …it’s the whole thing about Arch.

Ownership. Aside the pedantic “it’s not really yours unless you build everything single thing”, I would like more control and discretion of what my system is.

Community. I asked a question on the Mint forums and got less than ideal answers. Lurking here has been awesome!

Latest drivers and packages.

@ Known reasons I’m worried about switching to EOS:

Latest drivers and packages. I’m not one to update every day, so bugged releases might not affect me much? But I don’t like the idea of having to research each and every update before clearing it for installation.

Terminal Centric. I’m not afraid of it, just a very visual person. I much, much prefer a GUI. That said, a sudden power loss during and update on my EOS test bed laptop caused the Kernel to go missing. And then I borked the GRUB trying to fix it. Using the terminal I was able to fix both after a few hours searching online. And in that note…

Tutorials vs reading Documentation. Same as the terminal thing. I’m much more comfortable with tutorials, mostly because they I find them easier to locate common problems quickly (unless they are not coming…), vs documentation needs much more reading to figure out what part of an issue you’re dealing with.

Specs in case it’ll help.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (16) @ 3.800G
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti
Memory: 64220MiB

Thoughts?

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Install EOS with the nvidia option and it will install the latest nvidia drivers. Not sure what file system you want to use but I am all in with btrfs, swap file and using btrfs-assistant, snapper-support, btrfsmaintenance and grub-btrfs to allow snapshots at boot with grub bootloader. Also using Kde plasma as my preferred desktop. You don’t need to update daily but updating frequently is encouraged. This is a rolling release distro. EOS has some very good tools to help also.

Edit: Always update first before installing any new packages.

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The best and worst parts about using an Arch-based distro is the fact that you can do anything you want with it, and you can make it get the latest updates.

It’s something you get used to over time by reading the docs and applying best practices, or you go the “I don’t want to learn” route and have issues all the time.

So, if you feel like you want something that just works like Windows or Linux Mint and requires very little maintenance, don’t use something Arch-based.

But if you are willing to read 100s of sentences and 1000s of words, then join the party!

Hope I did a good job of “talking you out of it”. :wink:

Some links that can help:

Maintenance: How to run a stress-free EndeavourOS
Check For Bugs: [Wiki] How To Check Bug Reports

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There. That.

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@ Known reasons I’m worried about switching to EOS:

Latest drivers and packages. I’m not one to update every day, so bugged releases might not affect me much? But I don’t like the idea of having to research each and every update before clearing it for installation.

Nothing is forcing you to update everyday. Just make sure that you update everything, not just a select group of packages.

Terminal Centric. I’m not afraid of it, just a very visual person. I much, much prefer a GUI. That said, a sudden power loss during and update on my EOS test bed laptop caused the Kernel to go missing. And then I borked the GRUB trying to fix it. Using the terminal I was able to fix both after a few hours searching online. And in that note…

Once you get used to it, using the terminal is no harder than typing in a relatively complicated search on a browser.

Tutorials vs reading Documentation. Same as the terminal thing. I’m much more comfortable with tutorials, mostly because they I find them easier to locate common problems quickly (unless they are not coming…), vs documentation needs much more reading to figure out what part of an issue you’re dealing with.

There are tons of help videos available. But in time I think you’ll find better help here.

Specs in case it’ll help.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X (16) @ 3.800G
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti
Memory: 64220MiB

Thoughts?

You’ll have no problems running Linux.

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Somehow I’m still using Arch after 7 years. Antergos and EOS have been a huge part of it. The community is helpful. And in turn I also try to chip in if I ever find solutions to my problems, or if anybody needs help with something I’ve went through.

If I didn’t use EOS, I’d probably go with Bazzite.

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Using Arch-based systems has taught me to only update when I have time and energy to dedicate to fixing something if it goes wrong. That’s a beneficial practice for any system, not just Arch. Windows doesn’t give you that option to choose, however.

Updating via terminal gives you much more useful information about what your system did and if you need to make any follow up steps like reviewing and merging configuration files so those aforementioned issues are less likely to pop up. Arch-based systems also offer an LTS kernel that rolls along a little slower than the mainstream release, which might get along with Nvidia a bit better.

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Linux as a whole is customizable. Nothing stops you from installing Plasma on Linux Mint and then theme it heavily, much like how nothing stops you from installing Cinnamon on Arch and making it look like Linux Mint.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Debian based distros offer the latest drivers without much hassle on your part.

Then update once a month and set up btrfs and REISUB

This will be a major problem. Package management on Arch is exclusively through the terminal. The reason, to me, doesn’t seem that clear. It seems more like this is just how Arch has always done things, so this is the way things will always be done.

Whenever I installed Arch Linux, I used a tutorial from ItsFoss or archinstall, not the wiki guide. The wiki guide goes into a lot of details and I have found it very confusing and difficult too. It will be good to check the wiki first, since for most things, it is structured more like a tutorial than a piece of documention, but I understand your POV.

If you don’t think you will enjoy EndeavourOS, look at Fedora or a Fedora based distro. It will provide a similarly stable and user friendly experience as Linux Mint.

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I need to get into that snapshot scene. It’s beyond what I currently know. I’ll add it to my grotesquely huge to-do list.

Thankfully I’ve yet to have any real issues.

I am on the Arch Testing team. Things have been remarkably smooth.

I remain kind of a dumbass, so there’s that.

I’m fine doing a Devil’s Advocate thing. No distro is perfect. I have found EndeavourOS to hit my ultimate sweet spot (ignoring the misspelling of “Endeavor”). Flexible, customizable, up to date.

My way of talking you out of Endeavour is saying it’s not as turnkey as Mint or Pop!. I do have a system with Mint, set to auto update. It has been seamless for years.

That said, I’m not a gamer. So I don’t know the needs of that particular community. I was a gamer when I beat Bionic Commando.

As to community, this is the finest I’ve seen for Linux. I need to become more active.

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Go for it. EOS was my second ever distro after 2 days of Kubuntu and hating how buggy it was. I was a complete Linux beginner, and I was having a good time.

These days I can comfortably install pure Arch and might replace EOS one day if I feel like it, but nothing will make me stop visiting these forums and checking in on EOS from time to time, as words can’t describe how much I love this distro. It is the way to go when Windows becomes too 1984 imo.

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Whoa this had more replied faster than I expected. Thank you all!

I can’t say I’m quite dissuaded, but at least I have a few more leads to read through before I commit.

Re: the terminal, I’m comfortable using it, it’s just not something I prefer to use is all. It’s not a deal breaker if I need to use it and I was just wondering if there’s another similar distro that might focus less on it. All’s good here I think.

I know you’re sarcastic here, but even multiplying those numbers by 10, or 100 too, that’s not nearly as much as I thought I would have to look through. Good to know.

This is a thing? Definitely going to check it out. I’ll try experimenting some more changing the Kernel on the laptop and see how badly I break things. And maybe fix.

For REISUB, I don’t have that key on either of my computers. I recall seeing it on old keyboards, do they still exist? Is the key just not labeled any more?

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It’s branded as “Magic SysRq Key” – in fact when you have it enabled, you just press PrtSc and REISUB key combination while holding Alt key. That’s the thing, at least on my laptop’s side.

In general, I came to EndeavourOS from MX Linux in May, with the intent to check stability of Arch. Well, I’m… still using Endeavour. You sometimes need to rebuild some packages, merge files and do minor troubleshooting after the updates, but with Timeshift, once-per-week update routine and will to use the terminal you’re gonna be fine. Just bear in mind, unlike Mint, EOS is pretty minimal when it comes to default post-installation state, so it’s still you who build your system from the ground up and not the other way.

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One huge difference between the Steam Deck’s implementation of Arch and EOS - on the Steam Deck, Arch is configured as an immutable OS.

This means you’ll be using it in a notably different manner to a standard installation, with much more reliance on enabling features like flatpaks and appimages.

If you really do want something that’s close to the way the Deck works so that you can move back and forth between the two more seamlessly, Bazzite is probably the play as despite being based on Fedora rather than Arch it is also immutable, and will also be reliant on flatpaks and appimages.

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Don’t go with Endeavour or Arch-based if you eventually would want something that is self-maintaining and updates automatically. Also if you don’t feel like having to regularly check the news (via this forum or Arch news) and/or set aside a dedicated day/timeframe to update packages (just in case anything unexpectedly breaks and needs chrooting, for example). Also if you’re not in a situation to prioritize learning and reading things about your computer, which will be an important part if you decide to go with Arch-based. [Not that it’s not important for other Linuxes, but it’s emphasized when we are talking about the more hands-on nature of Arch(-based).]

Other Linuxes also offer customizability and lets you take full ownership of things that happen over and under the hood, it’s not just an Arch thing. As for the community aspect, personally I find that if you use just about any of the bigger distros, you’ll likely experience similar community assistance in their dedicated forums or communication channels.

As for your concerns, if you need newer packages I’d say Fedora is the next best option, as they have fresh packages too. The terminal thing honestly I don’t think you can completely avoid, but when you use distros like Fedora you do have an option to use the GUI to install and update packages (Discover on KDE, GNOME Software on GNOME). While technically point-and-click updaters exist for Arch, users are generally discouraged from using them as they can bring more problems than ideal (FWIW, Endeavour has a pop-up menu that lets you update by clicking a button instead of typing yay on the terminal). I can’t say much about preferring tutorials over documentation - I do think there’s an abundance of tutorials out there for both Fedora or Arch-based systems, but I guess it will depend more on what exactly you’re looking to do instead of what distro you have.

If you like Endeavour already, and are willing to make the commitment (for lack of a better word), then go for it. I went from Win10 to Endeavour and it gave me a lot of valuable knowledge and habits, but the amount of time and effort I dedicated into reading, trying things out, and troubelshooting was not exactly small. If you prefer to have a system that is less demanding on attention and effort, however, you’ll most likely want something else.

z580c mentioned Bazzite and it’s a good suggestion, especially since you’re into gaming and are familiar with the Deck functionality. On the Deck, Bazzite improves the user experience, and it can also pretty much turn your PC into a deck if you so prefer (of course it also offers a regular PC-version image). Plus you can run a containerized version of Arch and just about any other Linux on top of it. A con would be that it’s less “customizable” in terms of native packages in the system. But if by customizability you were referring to the desktop look and feel, there’s pretty much no difference (aside from the fact that Bazzite locks you to either KDE or GNOME - no other DE are supported at the moment I believe). Note that you can toy around and tinker with immutable/atomic systems, you just do it differently. :slight_smile:

If you don’t think the immutable approach is for you due to its rather restrictive nature, you can try out vanilla Fedora (a bit quirky with the hardware enablement to-do lists), Ultramarine (vanilla Fedora plus hardware enablement out of the box), or Nobara (heavily preconfigured Fedora meant for users with gaming/multimedia focus). Side note, Nobara is solely maintained by GE, who I believe has contributed a lot for Proton and Linux gaming, which can be a good thing (it’s maintained a person who knows his ropes) or a not-so-good thing (it’s officially maintained by GE only). On top of it, Nobara has its own quirks and approaches that are not 100% Fedora-compatible, such as their preferred package manager.

At the end of the day I think the most important is your long-term plan of computer and/or Linux use. Just my two cents :wink:

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You can install either or both, just make sure to install the matching kernel modules. For example: virtualbox-host-modules-arch (default/mainline), virtualbox-host-modules-lts (LTS only), virtualbox-host-dkms (both installed).

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Tip: you should keep a kernel of your choice - usually LTS - as a backup kernel in case anything goes wrong. For example, if you choose LTS to be your backup kernel, I recommend against installing the respective headers for it (linux-lts-headers for LTS), so that any potentially faulty modules will ignore LTS and allow you to use it for diagnostics.

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Lots of recommendations and leads here, thank you all!

When I first got the Deck and was tinkering with it, I was trying to install something but I don’t remember what it was. I was having a hard time until I found out that part of the OS is in read-only mode and I had to disable it for a moment. Figured it was a safety switch Valve put on the Deck so new users won’t sudo rm -rf /* or some such by accident, but it sounds like this is what the Immutable thing is. Excellent thing to know and look for.

With all the Fedora recommendations, it looks like I’m seriously out of date with that distro and family. I remember it being specifically for devs and engineers, not for gamers. Linux can be adapted of course, but I didn’t consider looking at Fedora at all. Also, it looks like Bazzite is a SteamOS clone. Not sure about a daily driver, but it sounds fantastic for a media center I’m planning early next year.

Ultramarine though… I’ll be installing that on my Laptop to play with sometime this week.

Other’s have said it, but it’s clicked with this phrasing. Yeah, I’m not in a position to have the OS make demands of me. I love learning and tinkering, but on my own terms and time. The bleeding edge is probably not for me at the moment.

A small aside: In looking up things people have mentioned, I’m seeing that there’s a debate on how often one should update with some people updating every few hours. Is there a a reason for this? It sounds excessive.

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As to a reason, some of us get joy by updates. I update every time i think about it (up to ten times a day). It’s unnecessary, but hey, got a minute, sure…update!
Arch DOES NOT play well with infrequent updates (I wouldn’t go more than a month for sure),and I would argue for a weekly minimum. Things can get really nasty if you wait.
You also should pay attention to what is being updated and not just blindly let it do it.

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That’s what they say, but honestly, it’s just a simple desktop Linux distro. It says that because Linux gaming is still kind of new, in the form that it is now. There is a gaming distro based on Fedora called Nobara.

Arch pushes updates to their repos constantly. Some feel the need to update constantly. Others prefer to update once a month, some others prefer to update weekly.

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I definitely have constant sudo pacman -Syu syndrome but I’m trying to limit it to once a week. Don’t forget to read the Arch home page and EOS forums for any manual interventions required in updates.

Honestly, if you set up regular backups with your preferred backup tool, this is irrelevant. I personally have scheduled daily snapshots of my entire system including /root and /home with Timeshift using rsync to another internal drive, and keep any precious unrecoverable data (so like photos etc.) on Icedrive encrypted cloud storage.

This way, if an update breaks my system, I’ll say “oh no, anyway”, boot into a live Mint USB and restore with Timeshift, then hold off from upgrading until issues are resolved.

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