Come on? If someone is taking an artists music and creating cd’s or selling it on a streaming service then yes they are stealing intellectual property. What I’m saying is there is no harm in downloading a song to listen to it yourself. But if it’s for the purpose of profiting off of an artists work then yes it is stealing an artists work for profit and that is harm. End of discussion! All I have to say.
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nevermind…i was posing a thought regarding takinge a moral stance against it using legality as justification and the idea that morality in this regard is a bit malleable but youre too invested in being argumentative for it.
This threads become a bit exhausting so ill take my leave for now.
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So, once they take it, the original artist no longer has that “intellectual property”?
No, by definition, making a copy means that the original is intact: the artist still has everything he had before copying happened.
So, once a copy exists, one who created it can do with it whatever he pleases. Nobody is deprived of anything.
You can say that the artist is deprived of his “potential revenue” but I would ask you for proof of that claim, which is impossible to provide. “Come on!” and “End of discussion!” do not count as proof that someone is guilty of doing something wrong.
So do you concede that, while illegal, copying and sharing music online without authorisation is not immoral? Are you claiming, like myself, that copyright laws are unjust? If so, we agree.
I will give 100% @ricklinux right if you sell an artist’s art or music that they have put a lot of work into and you do not pay them then it is to steal for an artist 100%
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If someone is taking their music and selling it for profit then it’s theft of intellectual property. There is a big difference between sharing and or listening to an artists music and taking something you don’t own and selling it to make money.
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How is it theft, if the person who is the supposed victim of said theft still has that what was supposedly stolen?
If you are selling CDs and I buy one from you, and make copies of it and sell those copies, you still have everything you had before I did that. Therefore, no theft occurred, I have taken nothing from you by doing so.
It’s the same as books… they have laws about copying there also. That’s why they have fair use rules. What can be copied and for what purpose. It’s no different. You can just copy other people’s work and sell it. That’s theft and yes there is harm.
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I’m still waiting for you to tell me how is that theft and where is the harm…
I already did. It’s theft of intellectual property. You don’t have the rights to it to sell it to make money. So it’s theft!
In order to demonstrate to me that something is theft, you have to show me the original owner being deprived of his property. Making copies does not deprive anyone of anything.
He’s deprived of the $$ that you are getting from stealing his property by copying it and selling it for profit which you don’t have the right’s to do. Hence = theft!
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Music isn’t Foss! it’s not GNU. 
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Let’s make it a concrete example.
You are an artist and you sell CDs of your music for $10 each.
Along comes Alice and buys a CD from you, she copies it and gives the five copies to five friends of hers as gifts for free.
Then Bob comes, and he buys a CD from you, and he makes five copies of it, and sells them for $8 each to five people.
And then comes Cindy and buys a CD from you, and she uploads it to a website where anyone can download it. We have no idea how many people downloaded it.
How much money did Alice steal from you?
How much money did Bob steal from you?
How much money did Cindy steal from you?
You still have your CDs to sell, nobody took those from you. In fact, you made $30 by selling them to Alice, Bob, and Cindy just now, and you can still continue to sell them. To me, that’s a situation where everyone wins.
Some is actually almost FOSS
They spread their tracker files which you can modify or render 
Pretty cool culture btw
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We are not talking about one guy who steals a car and sells it compared to a car theft ring that’s stealing a 100 cars a night! There’s a big difference and yes both are stealing. Artists aren’t going to paid for every-time someone listens to there song. But the fact is they own the music and someone can’t just start copying their stuff and selling it. It’s theft. If you can’t understand that…I’m sorry i can’t help you. I guess if you were an artist maybe it would make sense. 
I know you have your opinion and that’s fine. But that’s not how i feel about it or my understanding of the laws related to it.
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Can you give me the numbers?
I am, and it does not make sense, and there are many artists who agree with me.
I think the question is how much did they profit from selling my stuff!
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You must be a poor artist then if you just let everyone steal your stuff and sell it. Makes no sense at all.
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I gave you the numbers, it’s not difficult to calculate.
Alice profited 0, in fact she spend money on buying five CD blanks.
Bob made $40, minus the cost of five CD blanks.
Cindy profited 0 and spent nothing, even though she saturated the market with copies.
So, Bob owes you $40? Even though he undercut you (your original price was $10 per CD, Bob sold 5 for $40)? And Alice and Cindy owe you nothing?
I don’t see how you can be consistent and fair about this.
FWIW (not very much) I use Spotify/Soundcloud to listen to music I’m thinking of buying (and very occasionally one of Spotify’s playlists as background music). If I like what I hear, I buy the music (FLAC/WAV download or CD). I have two albums that I have downloaded for free, because they are not available to buy (not even as a used CD).
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