Maintaining an Arch/EnOS system the long run

Lounge
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Hi guys,
i would like to hear your thoughts on this one. EndeavourOS gives you a quick and easy start running an Arch based system. But after installation, you’re on your own - just “rolling” on and on. It’s on you to manage your installation. But the “install once, update forever” nature does not take into account, that the landscape changes over time. It’s not like you set up your system one time and then leave it as is forever. New technologies and changes will come, like pipewire or wayland.

On non-rolling distros you get a new release which will eventually come with those new goddies, or other “improvements” like btrfs properly set up with sane subvolumes, maybe snapper already installed, snapshots created automatically, able to boot into them from grub. Or zram out of the box… you get what i mean.

On Arch (and EnOS), it’s up to you, to configure that things (if you like - you don’t have to, of course :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: ).
That’s alright, the Arch Wki tells you how to do it. But you have to know about such things in the first place, right? Like there is something like zram, that can help improve performance. And moreover (and that’s my point here) you have to keep track on changes, that will maybe come sometime. For example, i stumbled across this one:
i used to use systemd-swap. Lately i read on it’s GitHub page:

Current code quality and commit frequency is low

Users should migrate to systemd/zram-generator since zram should be enough in most systems

that’s what i mean with changes, coming over time (just one example). On Fedora, (or others), it would just be replaced with zram-generator on the next release maybe, but on your Arch/EnOS system? How would you even know about it? So you have to keep track yourself about the things you have installed.

Well, Arch is a “do it yourself” distro, right? But it’s even like being kind of a distro maintainer yourself - responsible for your system, On other distros, the distro maintainers do the work for you, and you just get the changes with the next release - easy peasy

So, how do you guys “manage” your systems and “stay informed”? About new “exciting” technologies that would improve your computing experience, or changes (like my zram example)? Revisit the Arch Wiki regularly? Look at other distro releases and whats new there?

(sorry for the long post) :roll_eyes:

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When packages are obsolete, they will automatically be replaced with new packages.

Just today I had jack automatically replaced with jack2.

So it’s not really a big issue. However, you are responsible for your own system, that’s true. If you are content with being a noob and do not care to learn about your OS, use Linux Mint, it’s great.

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This is a pretty fair statement in my opinion.

Reading the forum regularly is one way. That issue was raised on the forum when it occurred.

Another way is to simply wait until something breaks and then fix it.

Not always. Sometimes they just drop from the repos. Certainly, core system components will get replaced but I doubt something like systemd-swap would get replaced.

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Also, if paying attention to what has changed is too much work, and you prefer like on 'buntu, to have to reinstall your OS, nobody prevents you from doing that. You can easily reinstall EndeavourOS every couple of years and get a fresher list of packages (or you can just look up the list of packages and add them yourself).

True, like in my case with my old desktop and proprietary Nvidya 390xx drivers, which got dropped from the repos. They are still in the AUR (thanks to @jonathon), but once that stops, that old graphics card is going to become electronic waste, even if there is nothing wrong with the hardware.

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Moreover user mobody needs swap…who the hell has less than 8 Gb of RAM this days and / or actual need to have hibernation rather than sleep?! :exploding_head:

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zram is amazing. On my 8GB laptop I used to always struggle when I ran VMs. With zram enabled, it is smooth sailing.

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8GB on an old desktop/laptop really?

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4 GB here, with a 1.6 GHz dual core processor :frowning: Device is from 2018 btw

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8GB/3.4Ghz on my Desktop & 8GB/2.2GHz on my Lappy. Some of us don’t have much money to spend. I have to save up or buy second-hand. I’m not proud of it but at least I’m honest.

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I don’t see why you’re not proud of it - by the flag displayed with your id, you live where prices are umm… steep(!) - and yet you manage to have a functional system and world-wide access. Seems to me you’re doing just fine! :grin:

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Thanks. Some things just take a bit of self-discipline and saving up for. I’m not too good at either. I bought my Mobo for this system in 2011, and here we are. CPU is an Intel i5 3570K, legendary yes but old yes and here we are. I’ve got a MacBook from 2006, the old bugger is still going after liquid spills and here we are.

If I won the Lottery tomorrow I would have a ThinkPad and a custom-built Ryzen/Radeon Desktop within weeks. I can dream.

Sh**! There is a Climate Emergency. Maybe one day this stupid human society might wake up and actually do something about it. I can dream.

I am not apologizing for my rant, but thank you for listening.

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I noticed some ‘un-British’ temps over there lately… you would think someone would notice! Of course, they are banning non-electric cars there soon… if only that would actually make a difference that matters.

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Meanwhile we fund fossil fuels in developing countries while decrying it in our own. Proud to be British? Yeah right! The temps? Yeah, a bit sweaty at the moment but I hear BC and Washington State (US) have got it bad. Perhaps the Cybermen/Borg have it right after all: enough implants and it won’t matter…no wait I will not be assimilated grrr!

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Our present “Government” is very adept at making laws that appease the media/masses but actually change very little. I wonder if they use Microsoft as a role model? :laughing: :cry:

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Ok, this thread went pretty off-topic. Thanks to @Kresimir and @dalto for your suggestions.

pretty straightforward suggestion. But EnOS runs great here and everything works well. I think i keep it.

Huh, i actually do visit the forum regularly (often without logging in, just looking over the “Latest” threads), but that one seems to have slipped through my fingers :slightly_smiling_face: . Found it now using the search.

So yeah, the forum is a great resource, that’s for sure. I for myself do as well look at other distros to see what they “bring to the table”. Sometimes try them in a VM. I also read on the “interwebs” and listen to some Linux related podcasts.

I just wanted to know, how you guys do it. In the end it is a little bit more work compared to running other distros; that’s how i see it but maybe i’m overthinking it. Of course, you can just keep your X11, Pulseaudio, don’t use zram, don’t use <insert_a_technology_here> and just run your system as is until something breaks :smiley:
But maybe there is something out there that would fit your workflow, make it better, improve your system performance, or something else - but you just don’t know about it. And you won’t get it on a silver plate on a do-it-yourself distro like EnOS/Arch.

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Yeah, I think you are overthinking it a bit… As long as you read the forum at least somewhat regularly, I find it very unlikely that something new will get added to the EndeavourOS ISO (which is fairly minimalist as is) and that you’ll miss it in the long run.

If Pipewire replaces PulseAudio throughout the Linux world, you’ll be one of the earlier adopters by using a rolling release distro like EndeavourOS (even though it won’t be forced upon you, at least not at first, and you’ll have to manually install it). Chances are you’ll be using it years before Debian makes a release with it being the default.

I think the fear of missing out cannot really be rationally justified here.

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Arch is a blank canvas which you get to create your own masterpiece or stick figure:wink:. EnOS is like a coloring book it mainly eases the start but you have to create the masterpiece. And yes you’re responsible for everything you put into the system apart from the base.

The core components of the distro will be maintained without needing to be re-installed or without having to do big system upgrades every quarter year or so. But for the things you add to the system through AUR or any other third-party repo you have to take responsibility. Most AUR packages will be maintained but they will be marked outdated after some time if the packages don’t get maintained.

I personally try to maintain a very minimal system with packages from active maintainers. Every Linux distribution comes with some user responsibility. The difference is they come with more software components already set up than Arch or EnOS bundles.

Even in those distributions if the upstream maintainers stop updates for a nonsystem package then it gets obsoleted until you find another from the same distro repo or from thrid party repo. There are many like that in Debian repositories.

Arch is bleeding edge, so you do get the most recent update before other distros release them to their users. And the other thing if you know what you put in it’s not that hard to keep things updated.

The Key is to know your system and try to be minimal. Put in what you really use and need. Also with the community around arch and it’s AUR it wouldn’t be much of an issue to keep things updated. Also don’t over think, be minimal.

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Yes.

On the other hand, you also won’t get new changes stuffed down your throat before you are ready for them unless they come from upstream(such as DEs/Applications).

For example, take Fedora which I also run. They often roll out new things before they are really ready for mainstream consumption. i.e. pipewire, plasma on wayland, etc.

Also, in many static/non-rolling distros you don’t get the new features either. They are often added to new installs but not always applied on upgrades.

Ultimately, there is no perfect distro, you have to weigh the pros and cons and decide what fits you best.

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thats a valid point.

Well, well, well. It’s not really satisfying, but i guess you’re right. It’s like with everything in life. :roll_eyes: :grinning:

So i’ll mark your post as solution :+1:

Thank you.
Thanks as well to the others for sharing their thoughts.

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