KDE "dropping" X11 for Wayland on Plasma 6 discussion and the alternatives in that case

his voice i know … :wink:

:clown_face:

Yeah that’s precisely why i was livid about it!
I WANT THEM you absolute maniac of a voice!!! :rofl:

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My understanding is that “dropping (implied: support) <something>” in the Linux Ecosystem in general doesn’t mean that <something> will stop working, but rather it means one simple thing :

That the question:
“Hey, I came across some bug, could you help?”
would be answered by:
“Not my problem, I don’t support <something>
by Entity that provides the software (in this case KDE).

I mean, it’s Linux… you own the damn thing!
For all KDE cares, you can write your own little (or big) piece of software that implements some protocol that duct tapes everything together and it can definitely perfectly work as expected.

It’s just “not their problem” once you decide to go that approach things break and ask for help, therefore “dropping support”.
Which appears to be pretty much 100% the same sentiment Fedora is pushing.

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With the difference that kde does not say they drop support nor that X11 session is not supported anymore, they only default to wayland now thats all they say…

But support for X11 will indeed lose weight and will opne day be droppen maybe indeed… but not for now.

I do personally have no strong opinion about wayland or Xorg, but i can sing a song about Development burdon on supporting extra layers.

The number of developers are a lot smaller compared to the amount of work that needs to get done.

With this i have the full understanding to force wayland, the future will show if it is the wrong path, or a better one :man_shrugging: :balance_scale:

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That is true!

I think the misunderstanding originates from the Fedora announcement (which is pretty much why I referenced Fedora).
Fedora itself already did a good job explaining :

It is true that KDE Plasma 6 is retaining support for the X11 session upstream, this is being done with the acknowledgement that it will be abandoned and unmaintained (and potentially even removed) midway through the lifetime of Plasma 6. Everyone upstream understands the Xorg server and its associated DDX software is effectively dead. The X11 session is being dropped in Fedora KDE because it is already two steps removed from being unmaintained.

Maybe you are looking for swaylock-plugin to provide wscreensaver (a fork of xscreensaver). It requires the protocol ext-session-lock-v1, it is already present in Wayland 1 year ago.

Wayland has many different protocols to offer different features, not just one protocol.

This guy is an absolute idiot. He probably thinks that nobody needs Xeyes, too. Completely out of touch with reality.

:clown_face:

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Maybe…just maybe…It’s clickbait :rofl:

Well, I watched for as long as I could stand his voice touching my eardrums like a cheese-grater touching a wedge of Parmesan. It doesn’t seem to be clickbait. I’ll now go listen to some Palestrina Masses, so as to recover my sense of hearing.

I watch these videos from time to time. Frankly, I think he does a good job overall.
Of course he’s riding the wave, but it makes sense to talk about something when on all the platforms people are talking about it. The best current example is this topic, which can be found on almost every platform. Every day, we have a minimum of 100 topics talking about wayland vs x11 :rofl:

I could follow I don’t know how many git repo, matrix channel ect but it takes a lot of time. It’s one less thing I have to follow and since he gives the sources in the description, this also helps to know which PR for example is interesting to follow.

As for the voice, personally I don’t find it shocking. Maybe it’s a question of origin :slight_smile:

Lets hope someone make a protocol for making this possible. Although, i think its already possible with kwin.

:memo:
sign our Manifest!
Join the resistance!!

hqdefault

Issue with Plasma Wayland atm is my 3rd monitor which is connected to the AMD iGPU for power efficiency reasons has some weird problem where it only sort of works.

The cursor doesn’t render and it seems to have some sort of render/draw issue that doesn’t update consistently or even remotely close to the screens hz rate.
Searched all over the internet, tried everything. No fix yet.

Another issue is VRR will sometimes induce gamma soft-flicker on bootup occasional and also sometimes when exiting a fullscreen game and returning to desktop. Changing down hz then back up normally fixes it. (this can happen on GNOME WL also)

Interesting enough this does not happen on GNOME. But that has its own set of WL issues.

NACK. I do not see value in these features for my specific use case so I am vetoing the inclusion of relevant protocols so nobody can enjoy them. laughs in Evil Weston developer

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So I tried Wayland in the end.
Mouse movement is weird but I can get used to it, window previews usually don’t work and drag’n’drop doesn’t work well.
Some applications that start in specific area of the screen do that no longer.
Other issues don’t affect me much for now and switching did fix some of the issues I had on X, so I will be staying.

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Yeah that’s funniest one (their super-innovative feature for X11 to save position and size of SOME windows that came first time in KDE in around 2020 :clown_face:) no longer works on Wayland!
Let’s wait for another 20 years again. :rofl:

What do you mean?
Maybe there’s some changes in mouse settings / acceleration under Wayland?

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Mouse movement is weird

When i switched to plasma wayland, mouse movement did feel weird. The reason for weird mouse movement in my case was due to ‘‘Acceleration profile’’ in mouse settings defaulting to ‘‘Adaptive’’ under wayland. Switched it back to ‘‘Flat’’ and the issue was gone.

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you guys are all ignoring one very important fact:
Wayland on Plasma 5 was added later on, is not the default and sure has issues because the DE was developed on X11.

Wayland on Plasma 6 is there from the beginning, the default and what the developers are also using during development.

Whatever you all experience now on Plasma 5 is irrelevant. Don’t measure tomorrow’s DE by yesterday DE’s problems.
My guess is that Plasma 6 on X11 will have more issues than Plasma 5 on Wayland xD

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Many of these features are already available in KDE Wayland.

1: Ability to listen to keypresses and get mouse coordinates in any window, focused or unfocused.
→ For example: I press F12 in any focused or unfocused window app to open another terminal yakuake. Kwin has this feature to listen any key presses.

2: Ability to see the pixel contents of any window canvas, from any running process.
→ For example: I use kcolorchooser to be able to detect which pixel color outside of its window app without any problem.

3: Ability to detect all windows, their coordinates, their names and titles, and have a unique ID associated with every one of them.
→ Yeah, the pipewire API has this ability to detect all running graphic apps and mouse movements on the screen. pipewire-session-manager is used by Kwin compositor. For example OBS Studio and KDE Spectable can see them.

5: Ability to simulate keypresses, mouse movement and clicking from a user process, without needing privilege escalation.
→ AFAIK, Kwin Wayland uses the protocol kde-fake-input (See Wayland protocol document) , It should work with KDE Connect app on smartphone for remote access to simulate mouse input and key presses on Desktop.

6: A gap between monitors in a multi-monitor setup.
I do not understand what do you mean.I suspect you mean switching between virtual desktops. The feature is available.

7: Ability to have fully transparent, borderless windows.
For example: KDE widgets. I open Eclipse or Intellij Idea to initially display a borderless window.

@thereillywriter

If you do not want to have these features, you can simply turn off them in KDE settings. Do not install some apps they have these features.