Important appeal

I know this is not the correct section to post this but I didn’t find one more specific in the forum…
First thing first, I’m not a programmer and I just started a couple years ago to learn about Linux and coding in my dayoff.
I post this message because here in Europe the open-source could find a lot of obstacles.
Maybe some of you already know, but for whose don’t know what’s happening, you have to know the the European Union has made a law (that still need to be approved) about the responsability of all the open-source projects.
What does it means?
Well, if a developer make, for instance, a module, a library or whatever you want, and your piece of software is used, for instance, by a company to make its own project, if your module/library/… get some damages, the developer is penally and economically responsible of it.
This compromise the whole open-source system, because, any piece of software it’s released “as is” just for make possible the formation and the existence of a community.
So, my concern is that a lot of developers, from now won’t spent time anymore on any open-source project for the risk they could encouter, but most important thing, my real concern is that the “biggest” companies (you all know who I mean…) has found the correct way to avoid any competion.
In my opinion, this could be change the whole GPL/MIT system, as it is make just for do that and get the possetion of everithyng has been usable for free with the possibility to get a better product. In less words, freedom will be compromise.
I guess that for a better security control, maybe this law could be a good thing to try to avoid in a better way the cyber piracy (i know that this is impossible, but any “instrument” for guardianship is welcome), but, as I already told, in my opinion this law is not coming for this purpose. I guess that some nations are pushing to get a worldwide control on the code of everything.
This could be something bigger than what we could figure out.
So, please, if you know or just figure out a way to help to avoid this (legally… :smile: ) here in Europe, make an appeal in the developers’s community.
I can’t find any official document to post here in english. Anyway, I invite you all to get some infos on the net.
Thanks for you attention.

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Well there are many ways of protesting that i’m sure…Do it while you can.

However let’s speak seriously here, if you oppose real tyrants - i have a bad news for you, freedom will become illegal and you’ll be living in an upside-down world, so you’d have to either accept it or resist by any means necessary.

If they’ll make breathing air illegal, will you stop?

If any of that will get implemented, in software world it’s fairly easy to not comply - just don’t follow such laws, make your infrastructure :clown_face: :earth_africa: proof, never use your real identity online, use Tor / Whonix and you’ll be fine.

What are they gonna do, send sniffer dogs to sniff your LAN cable? :rofl:


Could you send a link to the document in your language (Italian?) so I could look it up?

Thank you, I fully subscribe what you say here.

As far as Italy is concerned, I recommend these two videos from :


Peace, Piero

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OMFGawd not this crap again. Peeps either delibrately overblowing this or just don’t have what it takes to understand what they actually read.

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This will basically crush the open source industry, which the world relies on and can’t substitute. Such a comical law can’t pass.

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What I have read the other day somewhere in the news was absolutely NOT what is proposed from here on up in this thread.


INSTEAD I read something to the effect that some politicians on EU level would like to hold software vendors liable in case of hacks and resulting business losses of their customers.

NOTE here, the term software vendor! I.e. professionally marketed for-profit software and services (such as cloud infrastructure).

I personally think this is a very good idea, but it has no negative impact on open source, if not a positive one. :wink:


I read like a few days ago something like what you are talking about. But honestly I did not take it seriously as it seems against “freedom”, “development”, “innovation”, “free market”, “competion”… etc

The question now is who is behind this idea? Why?
Does “he” really understand what open source is all about? Technically and economically? I doubt “someone” is pushing for this, as you mentioned.

I agree with you 1000%.
As an economist myself there are plans to change how the world works economically and financially. I might relate this to what was proposed “somewhere” that everything and anything should not be “owned” by the consumer/end user, he should instead rent it! Be it his home, his car, his TV, his fridge, even his clothes.
The question who came up to my mind was “From whom should the end user ‘rent’? I guess from an OWNER” Who is supposed to be that owner? It is a plan and the target for some to be owning everything on this planet and getting income from everybody on this planet!

Back to our topic.
After questioning above if who is behind this idea knows anything about computers, software, programming, economics… comes a few questions, I hope I will find answers for probably from the one behind this idea (and I welcome any input from the community here):
A- Is there a similar law that holds just for example Microsoft responsible legally, financially,… etc about:
1- My time wasted when my windoze system crashes? The text I typed or the spread sheet I lost accordingly?
2- My frustration
3- The stress I get for not meeting my dead line?
4- The income I lost because of the above?
5- The data I lost due to a virus/trojan/hack/ ransome which would not have been possible if the software was properly designed initially.
6- …
etc. -

Shouldn’t -according to the above- and what “they” suggested that Microsoft automatically pays me for every crash, with every virus, malware, ransomeware, lost time…
B- What about Red Hat and Suse for example? What is their answer or comment?
C- How would this law be applied to someone who agreed to the open source license (whatever it is), which I believe it clearly states that the user agrees to use the software at his own risk?

The solution is in the license itself. Maybe it should be stated clearly everywhere.

I am really eager to know who is behind it, and more eager to know how do “politicians” anywhere think and if they can really think or even know what are they thinking about!

I will be more than glad to here from you guys, and more than glad if someone tells me where this planet is heading to?

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Hi Flusso, I believe you are referring to the proposed Product Liability Directive. This is currently in the very early stages of drafting, so there is not much information available about it online. However the European Parliament’s Briefing states that it should not apply to open-source developers:

“With the aim of not hampering innovation: (i) free and open-source software developed or supplied
outside the course of commercial activity, as well as (ii) the source code of software, should be
excluded from the definition of products covered under the proposal (Recital 13).”


The briefing also notes that the German Bundesrat also advocates an explicit exclusion for free and open-source software - so there are a lot of eyes on this. Basically, the proposed Directive is aimed at preventing for-profit developers shipping buggy software while being unaccountable for damages as a result of clever legalese in the End-User License Agreement. It was never (as far as I can see) intended for it to apply to open-source and non-commercial software developers. A few worry-warts on the internet just saw a draft proposal and started freaking out about it. Which is good - now everybody is aware of the concern and can make sure it is addressed.

In terms of what you can do - email your MEPs and tell them you will not vote for them if they don’t make sure that open-source software is explicitly excluded (as the European Parliament’s Briefing proposes).


Where is this planet heading? Well, from the point of view of a very critical observer living in Germany, for example, the destination is very clear: It is moving more and more in the direction of total control. Whether this refers to future ownership (and renting of Klopaper etc) or rules for software developers in the FOSS scene is completely the same. We have all experienced it in the last 3 years. The test balloon was launched … And our “friend” B. Gates is one of the biggest supporters.


In that case, I assume you have no problem with empowering people who suffer damages due to buggy proprietary software to sue vendors?

I am glad it seems you agree with me.
If open sources providers should be liable it is supposed that proprietary software should be liable more.

It is the same logic else this proposed law will be discriminating which laws by definition shouldn’t be discriminating.


Did I say that I like this direction? When I see that our government bows more and more to the ideologies of climate sticklers and green school dropouts (foreign minister and consorts), I become afraid in my soul for home to all of us (not only Germany …). IMHO: mankind has finished …

Then Billyboy would lose all his assets to the aggrieved parties …

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This proposal (assuming that open-source software is excluded, as is intended) will give me the right to sue Microsoft for data loss due to its shitty bugs. I can’t see a problem with that - it means that for-profit developers (I mean companies, not individuals) can’t get away with shipping defective products to paying customers and then charging them extra for support. If anything, this places limitations on license-fee driven “you own nothing” capitalism.

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I am not sure I understand. The proposed legislation is mainly aiming at open source and its developers!

I think it should not be passed by any means or in anyway.
Even if it is passed nobody can actually hold open source developers responsible for anything because the user just by using the open source software has already agreed that the developer is not responsible of anything! So, even this law came out it has no effect.
Maybe a lawyer or someone familiar can add to this point.

That’s the point.

But I got carried away again.

Sorry, I’m out of here, otherwise the ban beam will hit me …

Freedom of speech is only an empty phase …

It is not aimed at open-source developers. It’s called the “Product Liability Directive” which basically is intended to create certain basic consumer rights which cannot be contracted away. So if you sell someone a defective product and the defect causes harm, you cannot rely on a contract to avoid liability for that. Because the previous version of the same law which is currently on the books did not include software (I guess it wasn’t as a big a concern in 1985 as it is now) which caused a lot of issues, it was thought that specifically including “software” would be a good idea.

However, the very early draft proposal of the Directive (which has to go through several legislative stages before it becomes law) did not contain an explicit exclusion for open-source software. Opponents of the law (which include all the usual suspects - Microsoft, Google, SAP etc) seized on this to push a rumour that the EVIL EUROPEAN UNION EMPIRE wanted to crush open-source software and impoverish everyone. Again, this is a draft Directive which I can’t even find published anywhere - so it was likely an oversight. The European Parliament’s briefing document makes it clear that they intend for open-source software to be excluded:

In summary, this is an accidental oversight rather than real malice and I am absolutely confident that it will be fixed before the Directive becomes law (probably next year at this rate).


I see the document states that "With the aim of not hampering innovation: (i) free and open-source software developed or supplied
outside the course of commercial activity, as well as (ii) the source code of software, should be
excluded from the definition of products covered under the proposal (Recital 13)."

So, it is clear it will not affect open source software. But fortunately it will affect M$.
I will see how much should I be paid for a defective Windoze! I might go install it on another machine just to make a lot of money, :rofl: :joy: :smile:

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Might want to read my post above your’s and ivanhoe’s post after your’s.