One could argue that the ingredients to make the alcohol are just Licensed to the end user since I just can’t make my own Budweiser without the recipe which they haven’t given me. However to me both are ridiculous and that was the point I was making. I mean When I had to deal with Age laws when I was Young I just got a fake Id and it worked great. So they didn’t do anything to deter me from breaking their rules.
Disappointing to see Lunduke posted here, his behaviour and history are without doubt questionnable.
I’m not really familiar with that guy and his history.
But as he created this github repo to document the individual positions form the different distros, his entry about Arch linux (32 bit) is at least confusing. As it’s the 32bit fork / variant of Arch that isn’t an official Arch build. Also, if you check the link, it’s just referring to a post on twitter that suggests that the domain https://archlinux32.org/ is currently geoblocked in Brazil. And that’s definitely not representing Arch itself.
Accuracy had never been his strongpoint. It impedes harvesting those clicks and baiting that rage.
No, however I do think he was the one who actually broke the story since it seems to have gone through California without any notice. Which goes to show that Yes even a Blind Squirrel will get a nut every now and then. Lunduke does love to thrive on conflict.
Personally Tired of all those who continue to divide us and Search tirelessly for those who work to bring us together.
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My question still remains on why a stupid law from 1 US state affects anything in any way, unless the “EndeavourOS entity” (or any distro’s for that matter) is located in said state and must comply or change states/countries or dissolve the entity to not be “against the law”.
Like, it isn’t a federal law (country-wide) and in that case, I can see a big of a bigger repercussion but from just 1 state?
It’s what gets me so confused as to why everyone is going mad over this. Like I’m not even from the US, I use EnOS just fine. If EnOS never goes the route of actually implementing anything like age-verification, telemetry, etc. (in a nerfarious way) then I’m still fine, I would think.
Like in a more “real life” example, there is a reason why many people move out states to a state with less or no income tax or property tax.- New York, California and some other states legislation does not apply there. So why would a bill from Cali apply any other state where it hasn’t passed, let alone the rest of the world.
Looks like it’s spreading to other states in the states (CO, NY, …) and other nations (Brazil) as well.
Yes, generally also considered garbage surveillance states. Like we all know NY is shit as much as California. Colorado is a hit and miss.
Brazil has been on a run of deprecating itself with major law bs.
I don’t think this is any different to the data collection that has happened over the past 10 years with basically everyone in the world throughout “apps”.
I can imagine the slippery slope of: 1 state, more states, federal - other countries follow. Suddenly you get blocked on the internet for using Linux. Kinda a la “can’t use this banking app without android” or whatever. And I understand it, is a PITA.
But as Dalto was saying… this means nothing for now and we’ll see what we do when the time comes?
I’m okay with systemd doing age verification. But if it wants to store my shoe size, I’m outta’ here!
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Reminds me of something that happened to me once while I was banking on the internet and needed support from the official customer service chat.
The chat was blocked for me while on Linux. At first I thought it was due to my Internet setup being slightly hardened (NextDNS + Brave), but when I logged in to bank’s website on Windows with the same setup… the chat magically worked.
So yeah, it’s happening.
I say it again: On OS level there is not much to do. And there is certainly not any age verification on OS level. Please read section
1798.501. (a) An operating system provider shall do all of the following:
The OS provider does only need to provide an interface to store and retrieve age information from the user account. That is it. There is no verification on OS level.
Because that one state is California. They are like the beta testing ground, as well as, being HQ for a lot of BIg Tech. If this was happening in Nebraska, it wouldn’t be news.
There is also (apparently) a coordinated movement going on so additional states - CO, IL, NY most prominent are following along. If enough states implement this, there will be calls for a federal action to standardize the law.
I’m sure there will be law suits and appeals. The judge rulings will be used as guidance to amend the legislation.
That’s sort of what they’re doing. Age verification is sort of like getting carded in the bar. If you’re using fake ID that’s on you, not the bar.
Hello SweetLinguica, welcome 
Systemd has been forked.
This Quick Video From Brodie at least showcases a tiny portion of the whole thing, different POVs and arguments as well as potential issues or overlapping situations.
This is a LEGAL matter and legal doesn’t care about what we think (sort of).
I know Linux barely enough to understand what is going on, but not to call myself overtly technical. When it comes to legal stuff, I know enough to know I don’t know squat. However understand certain situations are one thing in the “eye of the people” and a completely different thing inside congress / a trial (for context, all the legal battles for failed / Undelivered MMORPGs or asset theft such as Dark & Darker).
First, 2 things:
1 - This can be the result of my ignorance, so I am open for people to school me - US has this weird thing of “you are old enough for some things but also not old enough for certain things” and this ranges from 16 years old to 21. Like drinking. In my country, you turn 18, you are “overage” / adult. You can go buy cigarettes, enter bars and get alcohol (legally speaking). This US law / regulation, doesn’t apply to me because . - This point is important for later and the questions I have regarding the legal repercussions of the bills passing (Note: All of this clearly understanding that, bills passing, specifically federal and/or more countries worldwide doing the same makes everything shittier and much more difficult, so that is not something that I am overlooking).
2 - I personally find the slippery slope logic to be a fallacy and I hate it because even if things end up being true to what was previously thought, you can only know it is true or false because you went through it and it happened. In a more real example, if slippery slope thinking was always the way we think about things, we would still believe that homosexuality is a mental illness. This is the reason why I say “what is the issue NOW and how do we solve it” - So far, there is no real issue, as showcased in the video linked above. Potential issues? YES. But that is something for later.
With these 2 things in mind, my questions are (and again, probably due to ignorance so you can enlighten me):
- If a bill in CA (or any other state or even federal) passes, understandably all “OS entities based in CA or that want to be used in CA will need to comply otherwise they would be against the law”. So at this point, why does it matter that is SystemD? If this would be a legal requirement, it wouldn’t matter how it’s implemented, only that it will NEED to be implemented. So this whole thing of “ditch SystemD” to me seems silly. If it ends up being an actual law and later on enforced, SystemD is just “one part” of the thing.
- Considering the above, if you could “just avoid it by not using systemD” then… the law wouldn’t matter at all as a lot of distros would just not use SystemD and call it a day, which seems really stupid considering everyone is losing their minds on this situation - In addition, as we know so far, SystemD implementation was just yet another field and that is optional so if distros or apps could just “not use it” and be without any legal trouble then again, the law is meaningless and they could just not do it.
- Assuming this passes in CA, NY, CO and others but is not federal - What would prevent a distro to simply “move places” if their entity is based in one of these states? Just go somewhere else. And people within the state that wants to use it, they do so on their own accord just like going over a speed limit in your car on the highway.
- The argument about “big tech” is the one misses me the most: Big Tech is assumed to get all of our data and this and that then… what does it matter they use Azure or Debian for their servers? Literally asking as I legitimately don’t know. I would assume that even if they use Open Source solutions, their “company server code” must be closed source and they change the original code as they please to do all these things. So whether or not the bill passes I don’t think it changes anything to what Big Tech is doing - that is the whole point of “not using Big Tech stuff”, right? What it DOES change is, in case of being enforced, for distros based there/individuals using X Y or Z OS in those places.
- Last question is, regarding “servers” and “internet solutions” - If the whole internet uses Cloudflare, and that is in CA, and then suddenly they either force you to have this on or else they don’t provide you service… I think at some point we will see an alternative, based somewhere else, that won’t have these things. Isn’t that the whole idea of privacy and Linux? To not be centralized? That is why I am so confused with people being on a rave run with this. US laws don’t control the world, if they do is because whatever people use is centralized over there. I have the feeling at some point, other server solution will spring up in a place where they don’t have to comply with these laws. Whether or not this will be very difficult in 5-10 years because every country does the same is a separate discussion, and for the future.
Edit: idk why it looks everything is cursive XD maybe there’s a bug on the forum, while typing I can see everything as I did it. So I apologize for that one lol
Edit#2: refreshing page shows it’s all good, I couldn’t even see my first edit “live”.
A lot of this bull*hit is thanks to a useful idiot by the name of Dylan Taylor, who had the commit access needed to just slip this in. What’s worse is that the revert was blocked by Lennart Poettering, - yes that Lennart, who left to work for Microsoft, so the stance is very clear as a policy decision. Legality aside, this is a slippery slope, and it frustrates me that it places distros as beholden to entities and laws they have no relationship to.
Translation: Distros get held hostage. 