in fact, there are benchmarks where xfce uses more resources than KDE.
1 Like
I have this here potato of a laptop, from 2011 or so.
System:
Kernel: 6.1.25-1-lts arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 12.2.1
parameters: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-linux-lts
root=UUID=88338df7-c57a-44b9-be1e-f1daaebef2c6 rw
resume=UUID=c75f82e1-7353-485e-9f79-149b08004b9c loglevel=3 nowatchdog
Desktop: KDE Plasma v: 5.27.4 tk: Qt v: 5.15.9 wm: kwin_x11 vt: 1 dm: SDDM
Distro: Arch Linux
Machine:
Type: Laptop System: Hewlett-Packard product: HP ProBook 4540s v: A1008C11
serial: <superuser required> Chassis: type: 10 serial: <superuser required>
Mobo: Hewlett-Packard model: 17F6 v: KBC Version 58.1A
serial: <superuser required> BIOS: Hewlett-Packard v: 68IRR Ver. F.01
date: 04/19/2012
Battery:
ID-1: BAT0 charge: 44.5 Wh (93.7%) condition: 47.5/47.5 Wh (100.0%)
volts: 11.5 min: 10.8 model: Hewlett-Packard Primary type: Li-ion
serial: <filter> status: discharging
CPU:
Info: model: Intel Core i5-2450M bits: 64 type: MT MCP arch: Sandy Bridge
gen: core 2 level: v2 built: 2010-12 process: Intel 32nm family: 6
model-id: 0x2A (42) stepping: 7 microcode: 0x2F
Topology: cpus: 1x cores: 2 tpc: 2 threads: 4 smt: enabled cache:
L1: 128 KiB desc: d-2x32 KiB; i-2x32 KiB L2: 512 KiB desc: 2x256 KiB
L3: 3 MiB desc: 1x3 MiB
Speed (MHz): avg: 798 high: 800 min/max: 800/3100 scaling:
driver: intel_cpufreq governor: schedutil cores: 1: 798 2: 800 3: 798 4: 797
bogomips: 19962
Flags: avx ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3
Vulnerabilities:
Type: itlb_multihit status: KVM: VMX unsupported
Type: l1tf mitigation: PTE Inversion
Type: mds mitigation: Clear CPU buffers; SMT vulnerable
Type: meltdown mitigation: PTI
Type: mmio_stale_data status: Unknown: No mitigations
Type: retbleed status: Not affected
Type: spec_store_bypass mitigation: Speculative Store Bypass disabled via
prctl
Type: spectre_v1 mitigation: usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer
sanitization
Type: spectre_v2 mitigation: Retpolines, IBPB: conditional, IBRS_FW,
STIBP: conditional, RSB filling, PBRSB-eIBRS: Not affected
Type: srbds status: Not affected
Type: tsx_async_abort status: Not affected
Graphics:
Device-1: Intel 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics
vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: i915 v: kernel arch: Gen-6 code: Sandybridge
process: Intel 32nm built: 2011 ports: active: LVDS-1
empty: DP-1,HDMI-A-1,VGA-2 bus-ID: 00:02.0 chip-ID: 8086:0126
class-ID: 0300
Device-2: AMD Thames [Radeon HD 7550M/7570M/7650M] vendor: Hewlett-Packard
driver: radeon v: kernel alternate: amdgpu arch: TeraScale-2 code: Evergreen
process: TSMC 32-40nm built: 2009-15 pcie: gen: 2 speed: 5 GT/s lanes: 16
ports: active: none empty: VGA-1 bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 1002:6841
class-ID: 0300 temp: 38.0 C
Device-3: Chicony HP HD Webcam [Fixed] type: USB driver: uvcvideo
bus-ID: 1-1.3:3 chip-ID: 04f2:b270 class-ID: 0e02
Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 21.1.8 compositor: kwin_x11 driver: X:
loaded: intel,radeon unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa dri: i965,r600
gpu: i915 display-ID: :0 screens: 1
Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1366x768 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 361x203mm (14.21x7.99")
s-diag: 414mm (16.31")
Monitor-1: LVDS-1 mapped: LVDS1 model: LG Display 0x02f1 built: 2011
res: 1366x768 hz: 60 dpi: 102 gamma: 1.2 size: 340x190mm (13.39x7.48")
diag: 395mm (15.5") ratio: 16:9 modes: 1366x768
API: OpenGL v: 3.3 Mesa 23.0.2 renderer: Mesa Intel HD Graphics 3000 (SNB
GT2) direct-render: Yes
Audio:
Device-1: Intel 7 Series/C216 Family High Definition Audio
vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0
chip-ID: 8086:1e20 class-ID: 0403
API: ALSA v: k6.1.25-1-lts status: kernel-api tools: alsamixer,amixer
Server-1: JACK v: 1.9.22 status: off tools: N/A
Server-2: PipeWire v: 0.3.69 status: active with: 1: pipewire-pulse
status: active 2: wireplumber status: active
tools: pactl,pw-cat,pw-cli,wpctl
Network:
Device-1: Qualcomm Atheros AR9485 Wireless Network Adapter
vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: ath9k v: kernel pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s
lanes: 1 bus-ID: 04:00.0 chip-ID: 168c:0032 class-ID: 0280
IF: wlan0 state: up mac: <filter>
Device-2: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet
vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: r8169 v: kernel pcie: gen: 1 speed: 2.5 GT/s
lanes: 1 port: 2000 bus-ID: 05:00.0 chip-ID: 10ec:8168 class-ID: 0200
IF: enp5s0 state: down mac: <filter>
Drives:
Local Storage: total: 931.51 GiB used: 519.26 GiB (55.7%)
SMART Message: Unable to run smartctl. Root privileges required.
ID-1: /dev/sda maj-min: 8:0 vendor: Western Digital
model: WD10JPVX-00JC3T0 size: 931.51 GiB block-size: physical: 4096 B
logical: 512 B speed: 6.0 Gb/s type: HDD rpm: 5400 serial: <filter>
rev: 1A01 scheme: MBR
Partition:
ID-1: / raw-size: 922.71 GiB size: 907.15 GiB (98.31%)
used: 519.26 GiB (57.2%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda1 maj-min: 8:1
Swap:
Kernel: swappiness: 60 (default) cache-pressure: 100 (default)
ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 8.8 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) priority: -2
dev: /dev/sda2 maj-min: 8:2
Sensors:
System Temperatures: cpu: 49.0 C mobo: N/A gpu: radeon temp: 38.0 C
Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A
Info:
Processes: 196 Uptime: 4m wakeups: 1 Memory: 5.68 GiB used: 1.57 GiB (27.6%)
Init: systemd v: 253 default: graphical tool: systemctl Compilers:
gcc: 12.2.1 clang: 15.0.7 Packages: pm: pacman pkgs: 1381 libs: 290
tools: yay Shell: Zsh v: 5.9 default: Bash v: 5.1.16 running-in: konsole
inxi: 3.3.26
It’s a really outdated computer, I only use it because I can easily swap hard drives and it has a removable battery (I intend to replace it with Framework 16, as soon as it becomes available for sale in Croatia).
On this piece of junk it takes about a minute for Firefox to start. But it runs KDE just fine (with Baloo disabled, of course). Sure, it’s not as snappy as KDE on my desktop, but it’s completely usable.
Xfce, on the other hand, struggles very much on it, especially from the ISO image.
Yes. KDE is not nearly as bad as it used to be 4-5 years ago, but people remember it from back then. It has come a long way since then, while Xfce remained pretty much the same.
I’m all for KDE being on the ISO image, for five reasons:
- I like it.
- It’s faster and uses less resources than Xfce, the current default. It should work fairly smoothly on any computer capable of running Linux made in the last 10 years or so (with Baloo disabled, of course).
- Out of the box, without any customisation, it has a familiar windoze-like interface everyone knows how to use. Just change the wallpaper, set the theme to dark, and the accent colour to purple: instant EndeavourOS theming
- It has Dolphin, Konsole and Kate. Konsole is, by far, the best terminal emulator, and one uses the terminal quite a lot on the ISO image. Kate has PolKit support so it can be used to edit root-owned files from the GUI.
- Most importantly, it’s by far the most popular desktop among EndeavourOS users. Nothing comes even close.
4 Likes
exactly where kde is the better candidate in case maintainment of it… also it can be changed and setup in many ways in every corner it is a complete ready to use Desktop without the need to configure… not only in case of the configuration but also about common needs for tools and applications.
It is simply all nicely setup and working out of the box… only needs to install the right set of packages.
1 Like
I generally have no fight in this, even though I made the suggestion. I am perfecting OK with the final choice being KDE if that is the goal. In fact, I am pleased they did not select Gnome (I’m not a fan, but so many distros seem to pick it). And ultimately, whatever DE is picked, the installer lets me pick my own, so I don’t need to use the default. So, whatever choice is ultimately decided upon, will not change my experience.
My aim was to suggest something that uses fewer CPU, RAM, and graphic card resource. Something that perhaps 5+ year old computer, predating the age of AMD Ryzen, for example, could load with ease. I understand not everyone runs out to buy the latest hardware, and if they do, they’re likely to stick with that hardware for the long run - At least that has been my experience when dealing with home users (consumers). Many of them have prebuilds made by HP or DELL that had perhaps early builds of Windows 7, 8, or 10 in mind and couldn’t hope to install Windows 11, so Linux is their escape.
That said, LXQT and XFCE are both lightweight, stable, and will work on pretty much anything. I recently installed LXQT on a computer that was 10+ years old with old radeon onboard shared graphics with 8 GB of ddr-2 ram. I believe it was only a dual-core CPU. That was three (3) months ago.
If you think KDE was going to be snappy with such a system, you’re silly, and I admire your sense of humor.
3 Likes
I tried Xfce and KDE on that same laptop, I’m telling you, Xfce is painfully slow, KDE works just fine (not super snappy as dwm, obviously, but fine). With Baloo disabled, of course. There is no doubt that LXQt would work faster.
1 Like
I suspect you changed something personally on your end. XFCE isn’t known to use a lot of resources. That said, I have found LXQT to be either comparable or, in some instances, lighter on resources.
I am curious what your hardware setup is.
I literally posted inxi above! 
Well, slappy me silly, and call me Lucy. I missed that. 
2 Likes
FACEPALM CLUB!!! 
I have Plasma running on an old ThinkPad I5 4th gen. with 8GB RAM and on an old HP tower with an I7 third gen. with 6 GB RAM and as @Kresimir already wrote, Plasma runs reasonably smooth on both of them.
Granted, they’re not my workhorse machines, and in comparison with my two Ryzen machines, well let’s not make that comparison because that is not fair competition…
The big slowdown factor is the browser and surfing the internet in general, but the DE itself does perform reasonably well on these machines.
I also want to stress that running a DE/WM is one thing, maintaining a DE/WM for an ISO with an installer on board is a completely different ballgame.
We as a team love this project and we would also love to maintain it for years to come. As @joekamprad and @dalto already mentioned, Plasma out of the box does fit better to lighten the workload and that is what it is all about.
7 Likes
Exactly! That’s the problem with my HP ProBook 4540s. It’s not the DE that runs poorly, it’s the application software, browsers in specific. In the last 10 years they have become much more bloated than anything else. And back then, webpages were much simpler.
5 Likes
A post was merged into an existing topic: Cassini Nova R2 released and a small insight behind the scenes
If you think xfce was snappy, you should give kde a chance, it’s lighter weight and has been pretty much since the moment plasma 5 was released.
1 Like
This has to be a running joke that I am missing.
I have no problem using KDE on my system, but I can assure you on an older system, KDE is no picnic. Both XFCE and LXQT run without using nearly as many resources as KDE. They’re what one would recommend for an older system.
I would recommend updating the hardware. Some people try to use outdated hardware that really doesn’t cut it anymore. It’s not just the desktop. It’s the browsers and the internet websites that suck the life out of older hardware because it just doesn’t work well in today’s environment.
2 Likes
OK, I think it is time to close this since it seems this has degraded into some kind of which DE is best on old hardware competition which I don’t think was the original intention.
To answer the original question in the most clear way possible, we actually did originally consider using lxqt for the ISO. However, we decided it wasn’t the right choice for our needs for at least two reasons that I remember:
- It requires too much manual configuration which was one of the primary drivers for switching away from xfce in the first place
- When used with openbox, it is problematic on high DPI displays. Conversely, deploying it with kwin means even more configuration and makes it more complicated.
4 Likes