Proton started to move out of switzerland

Proton, the company with products like proton mail, proton password manager, proton vpn, etc. is gradually moving out of switzerland. They say: Switzerland is not a good place for data privacy anymore. Well, I would say: It never was a good place for data privacy.

The first product they move is their AI product “Lumo”. They move the servers to Germany.

They are also building facilities in Norway.

Good move.

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I’m sure someone will recognize the company I’m referring to (I don’t remember), but they put their datacenter(s) floating out to sea outside any jurisdiction. That might be going a bit far :wink:

I don’t know. When a provider claims to be one of the most private services in the world, it always gives me “Crypto AG“ vibes. Why would a provider be ignored by the state and not shut down if he does not comply with the law. Ok - laws changed lately in switzerland, but same with mullvad in sweden.

There is always a bit of uncertainty about the actual confidentiality and comercial claims made in the past.

The safest option, as long as you don’t live in an oppressive system, is probably to stay away from shady people and content, also while using this kind of services described above.

Even though MullVad-VPN is an after thought on arc-based distros, I find it superior to Proton. Sometimes paranoia (mine) makes things a bit more complicated. Oh well, I still don’t want evil doers (aka as governments) tracking me around (easily).

Germany is a terrible idea. They’re very controlling.

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Have a better idea? I could argue “Germany is a very good idea, because customer rights an the right for personal information gathering (Recht auf informationelle Selbstbestimmung) is very strong”.

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Exactly what I thought!

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Could be worse, they could be moving to the USA, where (and I live here) everything is for sale, including personal information.

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Ya .. they could just link up with google. :laughing:

Again: Better ideas? And: Do you have personal information in which regard a service provider is hindered in germany by “too much control”? There are very good reasons why services like DNS servers of digital courage or mail by mailbox.org are seen as VERY good examples of customer friendlyness and privacy protection…

Where do you two got this information of control? Reddit? You actual know anything about german laws?

Do not missunderstand me - germany is FAR from being perfect. But data security and privacy works quite good over here, and I’d argue better than in most other places…

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I am not sure what you mean by “controlling”. A fact is, that germany has among the most strict and user friendly laws regarding data privacy. It is hard to find a country that protects the rights of the users more - even in Europe.

Just recently the "Bundesverfassungsgericht” has made clear that the german police is not allowed to spy on anybodies smartphone. They must meet certain, very strict criteria to do so.

The is the opposite of what most other countries are doing.

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I don’t trust them not to change their tune if they learn someone using Proton says something not-positive about Israel.

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Germany is not a “bananenrepublik” where politics “change their tune” and police is doing surveillance due to that. You must be talking about a different country.

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Trust and looking behind the things is one thing - but getting from a “feeling” to stating facts like “they are to controlling” gives me instant Tinfoilhat vibes. Sorry to say it that rude….

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They ordered two people to leave the country over protesting.

I don’t see why I’d trust them.

I think you are confusing data security with something totally different.

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So you are coming from protest rights to “very controlling about an ISP” - that is quite a HUGE step, don’t you think? Which brings me right to my second question: Any better ideas? If we for example would compare Ireland with Germany, I definitely would never go to Ireland as an ISP, because than I would be under 5 eyes…

O, and btw: I bet I could find something similar news (arresting foreign protesters because they protest against “the wrong thing”) in any country. And yet I don’t trust this countries more or less based on that alone…

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moderation note

Please don’t turn this to into a Political arena.

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I don’t want to argue here about it, I fully accept this rule, but often you cannot discuss topics while completely ignoring politics.

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As i stated previously the OP is confusing data security with something totally different and we don’t want this topic to go off in that direction.

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