Pamac/Octopi/Pacseek Alternatives- To AUR or Not to AUR?

General system Applications
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Hi guys,
The title says it all!
I know the standard, default and accepted is to use pacman to install any app or package.

I know, and have seen a thread recently, a user asking about a GUI to search for, install, uninstall packages.

I don’t mind using pacman and actually using it.

Searching I found an interesting app that is text based and seen some posts here saying good things about it.

Unfortunately it seems it is not in the default main repos and it is in AUR, which I prefer not to even have it in my repos.

Why not put it in main repos?
I remember some time ago when I started with EndeavourOS (or maybe was it Manjaro when I started Arch based for a short while) I remember I had an app where I can search not by package name but by description like “pacman browser” and it gave me a numbered list with all browsers where I then input a number corresponding to the app I want to install and then it installs it. But unfortunately I can’t remember what command was that.

Can you help this a bit old brain to remember what commands -but from main repos not AUR- that can do this?

Is there a way to get Pacseek but not from AUR? What if I installed from source (though I won’t like it, but may do anyway), will I be getting updates to it or I have to repeat and reinstall again from source?

I prefer the command line stuff, but, well, you all know Pamac and such GUI can make users life easier, but I will keep sticking to the rules and preferences of EndeavourOS.

I wonder why pacseek is not in the main repos and what commands can do what I am looking for.

I will highly appreciate your feed back..

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What possible reason would there be not to install it from AUR? The AUR maintainer is the developer. If you don’t trust him, you definitely shouldn’t use the software.

It would be completely manual. You would have to bring the source down and update it yourself.

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This is the reason I recommend pacseek for those seeking a Graphical look.

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You don’t want access to the AUR? :thinking: That’s one of the biggest benefits to users of Arch, both new users as well as seasoned users.

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Thanks @dalto
Well, maybe I misunderstood AUR.
My understanding -as I read here and there- is a repo where anybody can upload anything that might be risky, or it is not well tested to be stable.
Am I right about stability and testing? I care most about stability in the first place. (I will edit the title to be about AUR) as I see this is the point.

Well, @UncleSpellbinder my previous lines explains what I am thinking.
This brings another question, how to be sure I do not get an update from AUR that is not well tested? Do packages after being tested move from AUR to the main repos? I mean for example, assume I am having FireFox from the main/stable repos, would there be a newer version of it in AUR that is less tested? How to be sure I won’t get the update from AUR but get it from the main repos if this is the case?

This is a good point you mentioned @thefrog,
This raises some more questions, why it is not in the main repos
Forgive my ignorance, please. I still appreciate your valuable feed back.n repo. Is there a way to know which in AUR is really “official” and by the developer? The same question again, do packages move to main repos from AUR after being tested or they remain in AUR? How to know what is tested and stable and what is not? I want to avoid getting unstable updates. You know my point now.

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You can check with the official Website for said project. Read the PKGBUILDS, Check with the AUR itself.

I don’t think you understand the AUR.

the Aur are for UNOFFICIAL Packages. This means people have packaged ‘Program’ outside of the Arch Development team but offer it to Arch Users. They are a use at ones own risk.

While some devs may use the AUR for a test repo - offering a -git package. Most AUR programs stay in the AUR Unless the Arch Devs deem it a program to include with Arch.

The AUR is a fairly stable repo. While there will always be exceptions they are few and far between.

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Not really.

There are a limited number of people who are able to maintain packages in the repo. Managing packages in the repo takes time. Not all packages are ever going to be in the repo. Something not being in the repos doesn’t mean anything really.

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Yes @thefrog I don’t perfectly understand it as I said and as the questions I asked.

Gosh, as usual @dalto is always there to learn from him. This was one of my misunderstandings. I thought that just “anybody” can upload “anything” to the repos. So I understand now they are mainly developers not just “anybody”.

So remains some questions, I hope to get an answer:

  • If I have an app from the stable repo (the firefox example I mentioned above), would there be a beta not well tested version in AUR? How can I be sure I will not get updates from these beta or untested/unstable version in AUR if so. I want to be sure I am updating only stable versions, preferably from main repos. Can I get that?
  • Can I say that AUR is not for beta versions? It is for stable versions? I mean it is not like SID in Debian or it is like SID?
    I will appreciate learning more, especially about getting the most stable versions.
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If you install any package from the AUR it gets updates from the AUR.(typically with yay)
Simply not installing unstable (beta,snapshots etc.) versions of packages, will not get them updated.
This is a list of beta versions on the AUR.

Any package from the “system” repos get updates from the mentioned repos. (typically with pacman)

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Thanks @keescase
So, I understand that what is installed from a repo gets updates only from this repo it was installed from. that is my example of firefox installed from the main repo it will keep updating only from the main repo and never from AUR. The same applies to what is installed from AUR. Right?

One final question, is there any alternative to pacseek in the main repo or a way to search the way I explained and get a numbered menu to select from? Is it yay or other apps perhaps from the main repo?

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Yes

I get this with pacseek

pacseek
pacseek1291×874 155 KB

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You understood it correctly to search for packages you can use yay e.g. firefox like this

yay firefox

That will give you a numbered list of packages.

Or if you want only search if a package is available you can use (same example)

yay -Ss firefox

The only disadvantage of this method is you can end up with a long list of packages that makes it
hard to choose from.
this is a screenshot of the same search on pacseek

image
image931×561 78.1 KB

BTW this is only a part of the result scrolling down gives more results.

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That’s great. thank you very much @keescase

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This is technically correct.

However, each package has a maintainer/owner. It isn’t completely the wild west where people are uploading random binary packages.

What is in the AUR is actually the instructions to build or download the packages. The building of the package happens on your machine.

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I understand there is also a chaotic AUR , is it fair to say that is the wild west ?

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You may be able some other builds of firefox in the AUR, even as binaries.

So, in short, in the AUR you should look up if it’s a *-bin or a *-git version. As git versions are actually just pkgbuilds to compile it straight from the repo. Which I personally try to avoid. Because I’m not using Gentoo, more or less.

You’ll find lost of pre-build binaries in the AUR from reputable software packages which officially don’t support Arch or Arch-based repos. And in the end it’s just a '.deb or '.rpm package which is used to install on the Arch way of things.

In short, AUR isn’t stritctly a repo to which anyone could submit his stuff. There are submission guidelines and packaging standards to conform to. And a maintainer who is responsible for the package.

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chaotic-aur is a third party package repository which provides pre-buit binary packages from PKGBUILDs pulled from AUR.

It is not like AUR where you can upload a PKGBUILD.

I know that the process of building packages is automated but I don’t know if there is any review of PKGBUILDs that they pull from AUR.

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The CCC, which is not to be confused with the KKK, is also a pretty shady bunch of German guys wearing Birkenstock sandals and drinking mate tea since the late 80s already. They even include Chaos in their name. But their yearly congress is pretty much totally organized and bureaucratic.

In other words. I do use the AUR as well as the Chaotic-AUR for some special stuff.

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Ok thanks for explaining that, in an other distribution I saw it mentioned (Garuda comes to mind, but not sure) , that is why I wondered.

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Yes, I think people involved in Garuda are in charge of chaotic-aur. It may be even included by default in Garuda Linux.