From flitting around on various arch distro forums, it seems there’s an recent influx of new comers, often unfamiliar with Linux. My thought is that it’s being driven by Windows 11 (other topics cover).
To what do you attribute it?
A whole lot of the traffic I see is people who don’t understand maybe even the Linux basics. This troubles me, because Arch based is not where most them should try to cut their teeth. (see other topics about more suitable distributions for those w/o any technical unix/linux experience). I worry that a really bad (from their perspective) experience will sour them on Linux completely. I, myself, don’t have much patience (honestly much patience at all lol) for the drowning newbie that can’t even provide the requisite information to help them. Not much you can do with only ‘it doesn’t work’.
Do we have a responsibility to perhaps shoo them to a distro that might be more basic, stable (meant in non-rolling release model), and potentially more newbie friendly? I realize that some technical people that don’t have any experience may thrive here, but not your average Joe/Josephine. I really feel it, when the immediate response is to just load up another distribution (vs troubleshooting). This to me, is a red flag, even though I say changing distros might be their best bet, that Arch based is not for them.
Just thoughts flitting through my elderly brain before I have any caffeine (out of Mtn Dew in the house).
Put the red flags away please 
- Ask yourself what the general opinion is of the ‘Linux Community’
- Ask yourself whether your post reinforces that opinion of being elitist and gatekeeping.
You (or anyone else) have no responsibility or obligation to engage or support if you don’t wish to, but give others the chance if they want. We all had to start somewhere, so let newcomers learn and decide where their journey lies and what stepping stones they choose. I started on Redhat way back in the 90’s, - definitely not even remotely “newbie friendly” - but I jumped back and forth between higher and lower maintenance distros for years. It doesn’t need to be a diagonal line of progression.
Take your caffeine and reflect 
EndeavourOS was my second ever distro after running Kubuntu for 2 days and I was fine.
I guess half of the traffic is driven by Microsoft deeds, especially the Recall thing.
It’s not necessarily a bad situation, as many of us predicted that there would be a moment some folks might be too tired with Windows and what is happening in terms of it.
I agree, however, that Arch and derivative distros are not the best place to start. In fact, just after two years of using Penguin I felt mature enough to try EOS and use it without major problems. I always tend to recommend Mint to new users, just because of the easy installation process, desktop layout familiarity, the fact it always comes fully equipped and there’s GUI to manage the biggest pain points.
If someone’s eager to learn, I can’t gatekeep, just please don’t let them blame GNU/Linux if they choose too challenging path for themselves.
That’s how I feel as well (if I didn’t make it clear in my ramblings).
You, Lune, seem to like to dabble feet in the deeper water, this is admirable (but not typical).
If people are willing to put in some time and learn something, they may succeed.
It’s the beach balls of the world…that just bounce on and nothing sticks ;0
Has it not occurred to you that this could be exactly what Microsoft wants? For people to leave and have a bad experience so they will convince themselves that their AI isn’t “That Bad” and go crawling back to windows and giving Microsoft everything they want.
If we get an influx of New users who do not know then it is up to us to tell them. However what that person chooses to do at the end of the day is, what that person feels is best for them.
We can only guide people and If you personally can’t then don’t. That is the beauty of Community.
Probably correct…it would make marketing sense.
So often thinking very deep is useless, because the simplest answer is probably the correct one (ie don’t give people too much credit), but occasionally they do surprise me.
Honestly, Arch isn’t that hard. I consider myself quite dumb when it comes to PCs and I was able to install pure Arch in around 20 minutes.
I’m not sure my first Arch install (pure old style arch with commands not scripts) was that fast and I’ve like 35 years of Unix experience. I got where I could do a basic install in about 5 minutes, after much practice in VMs.
My own background being in Computer Science, I understand what’s going on at a machine and logic level, that helps. You may also be a linear-logic thinker.
Haven’t used archinstall, scripts or anything. Just archiso and I read the wiki beforehand.
The amount of issues I’ve had that were not my own doing are very minimal. 
Bazzite and SteamOS, when it gets released, will probably bring a huge amount of newcomers. Windows 11 becoming more and more like spyware will just add petrol to the fire.
You are absolutely right, the issues ARE virtually all because of what they did (but they didn’t know fire was hot and burns )
This is exacerbated with the modern reddit culture where it’s almost a crime to tell someone to go away and try something easier…
I always say that unless they’ve spent some time running something like Mint, they won’t understand anything.
They ask ‘why is it called a beginner distro - if it’s easy, why don’t YOU use it?’.
The answer is basically that they wouldn’t understand if I told them - that it’s fine to use it, and as you do so you might come across certain barriers (for me, PPA repos, trouble with broken, held back, and unfixable packages) which were removed by rolling on to fresh pastures… also a desire to try KDE - which doesn’t seem to sit so well with Mint).
So yes, now we’re getting into gatekeeping and must keep some extremely strict restrictions on our behaviour.
It’s also possible that we’re wrong - so aside from a general suggestion that if someone will use Arch as a noob, then they must prepare a strong strategy of snapshot/backup routines, and always read the news threads before running updates.
There are plenty of Arch users who never used Mint - and just because we did, it doesn’t mean that it was right… even if we ‘know’ it was right.
It bugs me most when you come across it on reddit - especially with people who go there because they’re basically too lazy to join a forum, lazy to read, or lazy to take time to learn how to interact and get help.
Sometimes, when that happens, we have to bite our tongue and try to skip it. I’m still working on that 
More than any difficulty with Linux, people would be most soured when you point out to them just how stupid they really are 
It has always to come from both sides…some newbies are open to learn other less. But yes patience so far as it get if you get impatiend letother talk… You always need to start somewhere.
Witj enough love influx is not a problem
cackle You have a point, but I don’t REALLY think it’s stupidity, I think it’s more somewhere along the lines of ‘I can’t be bothered’ or ‘I’m too lazy’ (not that they would admit the latter). Though maybe I’m being naive there ;0 Unfortunately, that sets my hackles on end.
Truly, I’d like to see them succeed at using Linux, that’s my point. Most of it is not point and click and win.
As much as I was originally against the ‘immutable’ ideas, that might be a place where it’s not as easy to brick your install?
The only problems I’ve had were caused by me, by failing to prepare in some way or not being careful enough. But I can’t say that fixing said problems was frustrating. It was actually kind of fun and I learned something along the way, and how to not make the same mistake twice.
I would rather take the time to learn Linux and how to fix any problems that may arise for days straight, than spend a single hour diagnosing something in Windows. The latter is a way bigger pain.
I think our responsibility is to help those who have the patience to be helped, and the curiosity to learn new things. I am sure they will find the endeavour worth their while.
@anon47347018, I think your experience with Linux is the exception and not the rule. I think with this wave of new Linux users… many (most) just want to have Linux “work out of the box” without much, if any, need to learn anything. These are Windows users who bought a PC or laptop, turned it on, logged in, and watched YouTube, browsed the web and engaged in social media. They’ve been conditioned to expect things to just work. This new influx of Linux users has less to do with exploring what Linux has to offer than it does with escaping Windows.
In my country, there is a saying:
Please don’t give me advice, I’m always wrong.
Let everyone take it as they wish, I only know that I started with Linux in 1997 with Red Hat, Mandrake, Suse and finally ended up with EOS, and I’m only 60 years old, I still have a lot to learn.
Greetings.
PS: We all know how to philosophize but few learn not to make mistakes.