You might be right, however, kindly do read my point of view. Let me give you an example; In the last month, specifically last few days we have seen multiple releases of kernel. If we refer to Kernel.org, we see the frequent releases. The kernel, which is a VERY important part of any distribution is released 5 times in 20 days and each time an update was released by Arch. Kernel version 5.74 ( 5.7.4-arch1-1 in Arch repositories ) is a bug fix of the regression introduced in 5.73.
Should there be no testing of such an important part of Linux subsystem before releasing an update to distribution ? I’m not looking for a debian stable or RHEL sort of extensive testing, but releasing a very important component like kernel within 1-2 days of its release is not a great idea, in my opinion. I, personally, am perfectly fine without updating kernel every week. Let that super important component, kernel, be out in the wild for a week, let it get tested for a week or so; this might give a little more stability to this awesome distribution.
Here are the releases we have had since start of this month, on the 5.7 branch
5.7 ==> 01-Jun-2020 05:48
5.7.1 ==> 07-Jun-2020 11:17
5.7.2 ==> 10-Jun-2020 18:27
5.7.3 ==> 17-Jun-2020 14:52
5.7.4 ==> 18-Jun-2020 12:37
I’m sure that there is testing before a new kernel is released. The problem is, that it is not possible to test it on all existing hardware and system configurations. So it is likely to be that there occur problems.
As you can read here in the forum there have been problems with the kernel from the first version of 5.7 onwards. So we can assume that there were more bugfixes than only the one for the regression introduced in 5.7.3 that you mentioned. I didn’t have a closer look at the changelogs of the recent kernels.
Accoring to the facts I know, Arch and EndeavourOS are not the only distributions having to deal with the problem. Same with openSUSE Tumbleweed.
That said, I have to point out that, if you want to have a more reliable core, get your hands on a stable release of another distribution. People using rolling releases should be aware of the fact that problems like these might occur from time to time. For sure more often than with a stable release.
Normally people use rolling releases to get their hands on close to factory and bleeding edge software, which is okay. The downside is, that you have to deal with those issues occasionally.
Nah, I don’t agree… yeah, I know there are frequent updates of the kernel, but it’s called bleeding edge for a reason; it’she latest, almost testing branch, and that means there sooner or later are going to be a frock up. Not intentionally, but because people are human, and we make mistakes.
We all new this installing an Arch based system (I hope), and sought ways to deal with the Damocles sword hanging over our heads; back ups, lts kernel, Time Shift and what not.
It’s called a rolling release for a reason; it’s a roll of a dice.
Lol. Love the way you have pointed out he obvious. You are right.
Thanks for giving me a great start of the day. I’m in Sydney and its freezing cold here. A hearty laugh was what I needed.
New kernels come out every two weeks approximately. https://www.kernel.org/
The next one will be 5.7.5 and they keep going until the next kernel version which will be 5.8
As you can see they are on the first mainline kernel 5.8 rc1 which will go up to as high as 5.8 rc13 or less until the next kernel revision 5.8. They run rc versions along with the current versions until change over. This is kind of their testing phase. (process) They don’t release the kernels until they are ready. But, they cannot test for all possibilities. Considering the vast array of hardware and software out there they do a phenomenal job. Then the kernels are release upstream to the different parteners such as Arch and then they going into testing. They are released when ready but there are always going to be the possibility of issues with all the different hardware and software that make up the OS and run the hardware. I give them a lot of credit as there are a large number of developers who work on parts of the linux kernel in some way. Coordinating these efforts is a huge undertaking.
Rolling releases are always updating to the most current files, software, kernels etc. So they are frequent and range in number but it’s ongoing. Better than installing the whole distro when a new version is out! I personally like rolling release instead of the way Microsoft has handled Windows 10 with builds and the way you have had to update them. It’s definitely gotten better but in the beginning it was awful.
I am not using Arch now as well (just a temporary hop) and it’s so weird to still see “there is nothing to do” in my green terminal after updating yesterday…
I can totally get updating once a week here.
I find it much better that way. I’m pretty busy keeping deadlines usually, so interruptions to update the system daily will simply not do.
But what I like more is that I have for example completely sidestepped all the issues with kernel 5.7 that are currently affecting a number of Arch users. I’m still on kernel 5.7.0-3.
Bleeding edge for the sake of it is not very productive.
I get bleeding edge if you are an enthusiast and enjoy the occasional challenge a broken update throws at you, but otherwise it makes no sense. I am an enthusiast, and I definitely get the thrills of tinkering and gladly accept chalenges, but currently I can’t afford downtime. “Almost” bleeding edge is the sweet spot for me. Just a step behind the crest of the wave. Actually this is what keeps me staying with this distro.
Btw when I say I’m not on Arch I mean “plain unadulterated Arch”, the way Arch purists make a difference between Arch and everything else that is not the result of a 2 hour struggle with install instructions and config files. By my definition though I’m still on Arch, just getting more out of it
That’s also my point of view. The differences between, what purists call the one and only Arch, and EndeavourOS are so marginal, that I see no difference at all. The installation process obviously is a little different but that’s all. Arch purists in my point of view just want to stay a little more elite. Debian suffers from people staying away from everything that might slightly be proprietary to keep their unique status. Discussions about the best editor are as old as Linux itself is. The elite users claim that vim or emacs are the only editors worth being called such.
I believe that this is all about stepping out of the shadow of the mass that comes along with hundreds of distributions and the open source concept.
I remember times when only a few people used Linux on working machines on a daily basis. That was extraordinary enough for people’s self esteem. Nowadays that Linux has spread more widely you have to find other ways to define yourself.
It looks more like a provocation than anything else and totally off-topic, but you can’t compare a text editor which has its own scripting language to something like Mousepad for example.
Some people are just too stuck in their way to even try to understand the point of view of others or learn something new. Which is worse than being an elitist, imo.
Unfortunately I discovered that they differentiate further than that! I went through the whole Arch install process (having learned a few minor tweaks along the way - like including nano and networkmanager in the pacstrap along with basedevel) - but later on I added “another distribution’s” repos to save time and effort ‘loading up’ to usability. Apparently this was reason enough to be personally attacked and derided as a ‘liar’ when I stated this was a properly installed Arch system. So much for a solution through their forums!
Perhaps less in-depth knowledge available in the community here - but it seems to be enough most of the time!
As for the updates situation, I leave a notify capability on screen on my conky, and if I happen to notice it being over 10 or so, I update. Typically takes a whole minute - which is not a bad idea as a mini-break from too intensely screen watching (I backscroll for what got updated to see if it mattered to me, or likely solved anything). Not something that bother me at all! If you let it get to be too many at once (300 or 400+) then it becomes a distraction!
I use a package of LOTS of widgets and tools for conky, mostly in lua, called Conkywx. It’s in the AUR if you’re interested - it is mainly a weather access package, but there’s a lot more - including this little goody! it operates as a service, then conky is updated with a lua call.
Here’s look at some of the things you can create with it:
There’s a few other entries in “Share your desktop” as well.
I could post the service, but I am not sure how the lua call works, as I haven’t dug into it yet…
Thank you for sharing, I’ll dig into it and see what I might need to change to get that working and see if there are any other ideas of things I want to add. Now that you mention it, I remember seeing your desktop in the “Share Your Desktop” topic. “LOTS” of widgets is an understatement, I thought you were running air traffic control for YYZ (based on the flag) and the national weather service at the same time.
ha! i’m not sure that’s really a rhetorical question, this being Linux world… I guess if you really put your head into it you could configure ubuntu to use pacman as a package manager :))
There are more differences between Manjaro and Arch though than just the installation process.
