Somedays I feel like Todd (checkered shirt guy)

Some times I just want to tell people to “just Google it”. But that seems so rude. Nevertheless, in the future I expect that I may lean more toward, “Do a little more homework and then come and share the answer with the rest of us” vs here’s the answer that I have researched for you. Wow, am I becoming a grumpy, old Archer?

This Home Advisor ad is so appropriate. Even the fuzziness of the video is spot on.

Not responding is a better solution. Why be grumpy? :grin:

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Good advice. I need to practice it more. It’s usually not the first question that is the culprit, but the follow-on question after question that shows the “asker” is unwilling to do any homework.

a user doing this is mostly not thinking that this is wrong, as the user is searching for a solution and if you give an answer: user just find a place where someone is willing to help directly, that’s easier as to do your own research… This is what today’s service society is putting in our heads…

I think maybe another heading in the EndeavourOS categories is needed called Forum Rules. Not only does there need to be rules regarding posting but also many many other things. Such as code of conduct, posting of materiel, spam, etc etc. trolling, abusive language, I refer to some of the other forums such as Manjaro and others. They have a complete guide and set of rules for the forum alone with 32 sub headings. This is just one example and there are many. This is probably something that needs to be discussed by the devs. I think it is needed and should be well thought out and discussed and gone over by legal. Just a thought.

there is many type of users also…

if you go into the realm of a easy installing distro thats also a bagage a distro get. at the end. but at the end when people help some system information of the errors is usefull… some description is to vage also.

there is also a deal of users evolve also. im one of those guys that likes easy installers :slight_smile:

https://forum.endeavouros.com/faq
https://forum.endeavouros.com/tos

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Now I see where it is. :wink:

I’ve added the page in the “About us” menu on top of the forum for better visibility.

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@CMarch I certainly understand what you mean, does it make you a grumpy user?
Absolutely not!!

I think it is the price we pay over here to our motto “There are no stupid questions over here” :wink:

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I think one big problem for many users is that they didn’t ask the right question when searching the internet.

This is a real problem for anyone, depending on the subject. One cannot know in advance what is the right question to ask for a particular problem when the whole field is new for a person. Then the only way to get answers is to ask and hope someone provides useful answers.

The answer can be, depending on the question, either the “correct and exact” answer, or guidance to more info (especially when the question is not simple to answer).

That way both parties can be happy - one gets a great answer to a problem, and the other one gets a great feeling of being useful when sharing relevant information.

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So true! The problem with the internet is it’s filled with a lot of nonsense. Google picks up on key words so the info it brings up a lot of times is not only old but, irrelevant or just garbage. Anyone can post anything on sites and a lot of information is a bunch of convoluted answers or instructions that sometimes doesn’t even relate to the issue. When someone asks in the forum they hope that someone knows the answer or has seen the problem before or has the knowledge to help. A lot of people don’t want to learn all the ins and outs and just have a problem and don’t know what to do. I’m not going to turn them away or make them feel inferior because they don’t know something. My goal is to try to make their day…if i can. If i can’t well at least i can only hope that they appreciate that i tried to help them. A happy user is a continued user and also another way to connect to more users. Every new user is a step in the right direction.

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A rule for keeping your sanity.
May not apply here, and I wish we all free of this nonsense.
IRL When someone asks me repeatedly about something technical, I’ll explain. If the person keeps using me as his/hers personal Google, I say smiling - this costs X amount of money, and I demand to be paid directly proportional with the level of grouchiness of the person.
This is a extreme measure, for sure an unpopular life trick. But it works, sadly.
Happy days !
ps: don’t throw rocks at me, I found it on reddit, applied it and it worked 10 times out of 10.

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I have a slight feeling that @CMarch is a bit misunderstood here.

Endeavour’s mission is to give each other help in a friendly manner, that doesn’t mean that anyone can ask for help and leave it up to the community to solve the problem for them.

CMarch isn’t saying that he’s going to apply “the find it yourself way”, he’s leaning towards that approach and he’s not saying that he’s turning away from a new user seeking for help.

With some users this approach works, there’s no right or wrong here if it still is put in a helpful manner.

Recently I have also addressed a new user on his behaviour, he had a problem and went on the forum and Telegram. On both channels help poured in, but he only answered to the person on Telegram who he thought gave him the best advice, leaving the other forum members in the dark.

Sometimes a little harder approach is necessary to let the other party understand that he or she is responsible for their own actions.

I’m not saying we should be harder but in some circumstances, it is better to toughen a bit up.

Don’t forget we all, devs, moderators or regular members are doing this for the love of the community, that doesn’t mean anyone can galop all over you, just because they want their system fixed immediately.

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I think @Bryanpwo is on the right track here. I like helping people. I really do. But I don’t like to be taken advantage of. I’ll switch between “here’s the answer” and “let me help you discover the answer” as the occasion requires. The trick is determining when to apply one or the other.

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I feel like there is a way to help someone find the answer without turning to a “read the manual” kind of approach while keeping in mind the aphorism about teaching a man to fish rather than just feeding him. The Endeavour community has been really approachable, which I personally find to be really valuable. I would not have felt brave or capable enough to try an Arch based distro without seeing how welcoming you all are. Being here has made me feel more able to understand and be able to search out answers myself. The Arch wiki is great but so daunting. Having background information through the Endeavour wiki and forums has made me much more confident.

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I work in IT service. Customers pay for it. They expect me to solve their problems (and they get a lot of tips for free).

In Linux forums I give support to help other Linux users. Voluntary, free of charge. In return, I expect the person seeking help to think and cooperate. And especially because it is Linux.

I’ve been an omnipresent supporter in the largest German speaking Ubuntu forum for over 11 years. There are registered 150000 (!) users, but only a handful can and want to help. A blatant imbalance.

The Wiki is mostly very good, everyone can collaborate w/o separate registration. The fewest and always the same do this.

Is it used by those seeking help? Yes, but mostly only after request and linking.

Most do not come up with it themselves. They cannot even operate a search engine (and damn it, this is easy). Rather they tip off their question in the forum.

Because the official, stupid slogan there unfortunately reads “asking questions is human”.

Often I (with at least 34000 support postings) thought someone should close the forum and refer to the wiki. Not w/o seriousness.

Everything has already been asked and answered countless times.

Just 1 example: I alone have written 160 step-by-step instructions for integrating various printers and scanners. Not because it was fun, but because nobody else did.

And even today the same printers/scanners are still in demand instead of using these instructions (updated).

That’s why today there is a clear edge: help, yes, but don’t have to switch on the computer.