Linux should be more convenient for the most of the people, but it sometimes does not work out of box.
I have a newer computer and Linux kernel that ships with the debian does not support that. I initially installed debian and could not get bluetooth or wifi working. I might have been able to fix that if I searched hard enough or read enough literature, but I got lazy/impatient and decided to install windows 11. I did not like how windows puts ads. I experimented with few other distros and decided to settle with this one. I think community maintained OS will always suffer from some issues, but I am okay with that since it is a free.
Indeed. Over the years it was more Linux related, just plain difficult to get things up and running to enjoy the OS. Even for the tech savvy. Nowadays, getting virtually any Linux distro desktop-ready is pretty damn simple in most cases. But there is a lot to be said regarding software. It’s up to software companies and developers to make their product compatible with Linux, not the other way around. Apple suffered the lack of software compatibility for many years. Until companies and developers decided to make Mac-specific programs available and compatible with their Windows counterparts. Hopefully we’ll be seeing more of that within the Linux ecosystem.
Debian, in my opinion, isn’t a good desktop experience out of the box. Its stability is pushed to the extreme, even though I believe that even Arch is stable if you aren’t tinkering massively with it.
Ich habe in den letzten Jahren immer mal wieder soetwas gehört wie: “Naja, du bist ne arme Sau und hast kein Geld, dir Windows zu kaufen. Klar, dass du dann nach kostenlosen Alternativen suchst.”
Solche Meinungen sind da draußen ziemlich oft anzutreffen und ich persönlich würde es nicht gern sehen, wenn dann solche Leute in Erwartung, einen Windows-Ersatz für Arme vorzufinden, unserer Communitiy auf den Sack gehen würden. Sowas braucht Linux nicht. Das ist vielleicht ein elitäres Denken von mir, aber als Familien und Bekannten Admin musste ich mir da einfach zu viel Scheiße anhören. Irgendwann hört man dann auch auf, solche Leute aufklären zu wollen. Linux sollte etwas bleiben, was den wirklich interessierten Nutzern vorbehalten sein sollte, die sich der Rolle von freier Software bewusst sind. IMHO
In my opinion, the problem is not mainly with Linux, but with the willingness of users to deal with a change. Being able to choose things freely means having to deal with them and that takes time. That’s just the way we humans are. You can only exemplify the alternatives and provide help if someone is interested. At this moment it is important to make the right recommendations.
This argument I don’t agree with. Learning about OSes is not high in most people’s list and should not be. As is learning to fix cars, learning to make paper and so on. If driving a car would be conditioned by knowing how one is working inside-out, that would not be a very productive thing.
True. But the nice thing about Linux is that there is enough space for user friendly distros like Linux Mint, Arch and Arch-based distros and whatever Gentoo is.
Personally I see greater Linux adoption as a net positive.
If anyone wants to use it, the barrier to entry is low these days. With extremely minimal effort most people can flash and install ubuntu, mint, popos or fedora, and pretty mch just use it straight away.
The only way it could be “more convenient” is if you could just go to a walmart, best buy or whatever and just buy it off the shelf. And it can’t be these $2500 dell developer edition things. Chromebook style. Get linux onto a couple decent $300-700 machines that are as powerful and cheaper than their Windows counter parts - I’d market towards security compared to Windows.
I’m not sure what else could be done to make it more convenient other than that. I helped my wife write the drive. She did complete fedora install which she didn’t really need my help with since it’s so straight forward to install. She didn’t even need to turn off secure boot or touch the firmware with fedora and ubuntu working with secureboot. . . And just clicks update now. She probably couldn’t even figure out how to open a terminal still. Almost a year now, and it’s no different to her than Windows or Mac.
Installing the OS is something most Windows users don’t know how to do. What you describe (preinstalled Linux) might indeed be the easiest way to promote Linux usage. I think Microsoft is actively discouraging manufacturers from taking such measures.
No thinking about it. Microsoft has always bullied OEMs to its OS. These are known facts.
One of the Reasons Linux used to be much harder was the fact that most hardware was made for windows only do to Microsoft telling the Manufactures that they will drop support for the product and promote another. So we had things like Winmodems come out.
Convenience is in the eye of the beholder to me Linux is already convenient.
I voted yes on this. While I do love how technical the Linux community is and how well versed so many people are with the operating system, at the end of the day, 99% of people do not want to learn how their computer fundamentally works. Just about anyone that I have encountered in the wild who inst already a seasoned PC gamer or someone who works in the tech industry literally thinks opening CMD/ a terminal is borderline black magic/ “hacking the mainframe”.
I work in a laboratory that is filled with many highly intelligent people, but i think out of all of my coworkers maybe 3 have any level of experience using a terminal/ CLI. Even then i don’t think 2/3 of them would be comfortable doing anything past SFC /SCANNOW. The average person just wants to be able to click “install” and have their applications start working.
With all that said, the type of people who cannot function because their adobe acrobat updated and moved a few UI elements around will not be contribution to the development of Linux or participate in constructive way on forums such as this one, but that is a very large chunk of people and until Linux is the path of least resistance they, and many other users will not adopt Linux.
I think there are many great distros out there that are bridging this gap but i feel there is still a long way to go. As others have stated here, I believe the largest impact can be made by introducing Linux in a school curriculum and by having more laptops and PC’s shipping with Linux by default.
While not the norm, there are several companies ignoring the “Microsoft bullying” tactics. Companies manufacturing computers designed for, and pre-installed with, various Linux distros. Not the $300-$700 range, but preinstalled Linux computers nonetheless. System 76 and Tuxedo in particular. But there’s another interesting company doing the same, Starlabs. Starlabs not only has Linux-specific hardware, but offers SEVEN choices of distros. So there’s hope that this trend can continue.
I think the main issue with these is they are quite expensive systems for most people, I live on a disabilty payment and could not afford this, The main reason I look for refurbished PCs. If I had the money these would be great but on a pension they are just a no til they do become more mainstream cos even when these are sold second hand a lot of sellers will go “rare” etc to bulk up the price
Yes many over the years have but in the early days it was not so. It really wasn’t until HP and AMD gave Microsoft the finger and did what they wanted.
The problem with these again are they are advertised to the niche that already want that type of system. Again go back to the broader Audience and we are back to people want what is already known. Users want to blindly use the machines they depend so much on.
I don’t disagree, but it’s a start. New PCs and laptops are expensive, in general. Windows, Mac or Linux. But for those who can afford a new PC or laptop, or those who can afford the credit card payments, it’s a real option.
These “Linux laptops” are particularly expensive. I mean they are really a bad deal altogether if you search for the same specs from bigger manufacturers. Just buy a normal PC and install your own Linux and you can get away with as much as 30%-50% lower price. They are really not helping the cause.
For some of them the main cost being the fact that they maintain a distro that they pay developers for. For the others, I guess it’s just greed?
Here is an example with the aforementioned StarLabs (which don’t even offer their own distro):
I just bought last month the EXACT same configuration from Lenovo (Ideapad Pro 5) in a full-metal chasis for 780EUR. It’s a huge difference from 2400EUR to 780EUR. it was 900EUR full price but I caught a sale, but still, even 900EUR is way less than what starlabs ask for the same config.
