# Redhat and Fedora **URL:** \ **Category:** Linux lounge\ **Created:** [June 29, 2023, 3:15pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612 "2023-06-29T15:15:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![keybreak](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/keybreak/32/9257_2.png) [@keybreak](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/keybreak)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 8:21pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/41 "2023-07-06T20:21:32Z")
> [@dalto](#): > > IMO, opt-out telemetry is not “Drama over nothing”. If it was opt-in, it would be drama over nothing. And even then, you know my stance from previous occurrences of telemetry say in KDE… In my view it’s issue regardless, because if mechanism for that exists - it takes one “oopsie-doopsie” by some dev, or even intentional one by corporation itself to flip a switch…even if it would be for a one day until it’s noticed or fixed, you know… The whole idea of Telemetry makes me sick after years of Windoze 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![thefrog](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/thefrog/32/114250_2.png) [@thefrog](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/thefrog)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 8:32pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/42 "2023-07-06T20:32:23Z")
> [@dalto](#): > > Once we see what specific data is being tracked and how it is being collected there could be a more informed opinion Here is the rub. Waiting instead of speculating 😁 Telemetry doesn’t have to be a bad thing the bad thing is usually the one collecting the data. The main issue is I see is the opt out. The argument that opt-in meterics are not useful is because people just cant trust what is being done with the data. > [@dalto](#): > > That being said, it sounds like the proposer wants to track some unreasonably intrusive metrics. I get this same feeling from my reading. Will be interesting to see how it plays out if Fedora is successful with it then others will join. ---
**Author:** ![ricklinux](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/ricklinux/32/110798_2.png) [@ricklinux](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/ricklinux)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 8:48pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/43 "2023-07-06T20:48:43Z")
![1 nEgtXna63n8waFsKfP1VZw](https://forum.endeavouros.com/uploads/default/original/3X/2/8/286d84d8408d5999e79512dcf6a7b688fe88e151.jpeg) 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![petsam](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/petsam/32/41308_2.png) [@petsam](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/petsam)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 9:04pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/44 "2023-07-06T21:04:12Z")
> [@keybreak](#): > > The whole idea of Telemetry makes me sick after years of Windoze So, because of our PTSD, we cannot even think about _helping the developers to improve their **free** product_. OTOH, as @ricklinux has wisely said, how can they provide free software if they cannot earn some money? Other wise words (or similar): > When they give you something for free, then _ **you** _ are the product. Free email, free cloud storage, free OS, free Office suite, free artistic software… Actually, they are not doing a good job with their development. They give us software full of bugs!!! 😠 Not acceptable! 🛑 How much money are we ready to pay for having a proper, privacy respecting internet browser? How much money are we ready to pay for having a proper, privacy respecting desktop environment? ---
**Author:** ![keybreak](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/keybreak/32/9257_2.png) [@keybreak](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/keybreak)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 9:07pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/45 "2023-07-06T21:07:25Z")
> [@petsam](#): > > So, because of our PTSD, we cannot even think about _helping the developers to improve their **free** product_. 1. Yes!!!1 🤡 And don’t forget that Fedora is basically a beta-test distro for RHEL. 2. I yet to see any product actually improved by telemetry, in my view that’s absolute 🐂 :poop: that more likely than not work in reverse (good example would be Firefox removing seemingly “unused” features by data from Telemetry, making browser worse). ---
**Author:** ![anon63071375](https://forum.endeavouros.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/f0a364/32.png) [@anon63071375](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/anon63071375)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/46 "2023-07-06T21:08:26Z")
I’ve donated here and a few others I regularly utilize. I’d pay for it in fresh hardware for sure. ---
**Author:** ![petsam](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/petsam/32/41308_2.png) [@petsam](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/petsam)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 9:15pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/47 "2023-07-06T21:15:34Z")
> [@anon63071375](#): > > I’ve donated here and a few others I regularly utilize. I’d pay for it in fresh hardware for sure. This is not a personal argument. Do you believe that the majority of Linux/OSS users donate in any way? I donate my personal time. How many users report bugs upstream? > [@keybreak](#): > > Fedora is basically a beta-test distro for RHEL. That’s a reason to _boycott_ them and don’t use their products. > [@keybreak](#): > > I yet to see any product actually improved by telemetry, We don’t have data about this. If some OS devs collect telemetry data, they should publish them as Open Data, to adhere to the OSS spirit. ---
**Author:** ![anon63071375](https://forum.endeavouros.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/f0a364/32.png) [@anon63071375](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/anon63071375)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 10:10pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/48 "2023-07-06T22:10:32Z")
No, almost every person I’ve ever met in life, literally everywhere, is a cheap jerk who only cares about themselves. Otherwise is very rare. ---
**Author:** ![pebcak](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/pebcak/32/100472_2.png) [@pebcak](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/pebcak)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 11:26pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/49 "2023-07-06T23:26:20Z")
> [@anon63071375](#): > > cheap jerk who only cares about themselves What would you expect? We are Human Beings 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![anon63071375](https://forum.endeavouros.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/f0a364/32.png) [@anon63071375](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/anon63071375)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2023, 11:31pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/50 "2023-07-06T23:31:43Z")
Speak for yourself meatbag. ![image](https://forum.endeavouros.com/uploads/default/original/3X/a/5/a5a852afec328ec6492d7c06ad8ecd08e0a63467.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![ricklinux](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/ricklinux/32/110798_2.png) [@ricklinux](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/ricklinux)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2023, 1:41am UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/51 "2023-07-07T01:41:37Z")
Whats up with all the Misanthropy? meatbag? 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![r0ckhopper](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/r0ckhopper/32/51768_2.png) [@r0ckhopper](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/r0ckhopper)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2023, 5:36am UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/52 "2023-07-07T05:36:43Z")
> [@ricklinux](#): > > Whats up with all the Misanthropy? [His hookers took all his cocaine](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/why-doesnt-endeavouros-support-secure-boot-out-of-the-box/42906/36) 😜 ---
**Author:** ![keybreak](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/keybreak/32/9257_2.png) [@keybreak](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/keybreak)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2023, 5:43am UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/53 "2023-07-07T05:43:52Z")
![Judge Halts State Action Against Firehouse BBQ | Page 2 ...](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia1.tenor.com%2Fimages%2F97ca84caf841b18c23d87c16abb35501%2Ftenor.gif%3Fitemid%3D15290901&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=fcb96d66b8a3432ff30b6e6f545e0de4ba7101d4482d850b2479f0b12c667ca6&ipo=images) ---
**Author:** ![mbod](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/mbod/32/16833_2.png) [@mbod](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/mbod)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2023, 5:51am UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/54 "2023-07-07T05:51:37Z")
> [@Cphusion](#): > > I moved my desktop from Fedora […] because I think it’s important to support a real community distribution Feodora is a community distribution. 100 % Free & Open Source. ---
**Author:** ![Cphusion](https://forum.endeavouros.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cphusion](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/Cphusion)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2023, 8:17am UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/55 "2023-07-07T08:17:36Z")
> [@mbod](#): > > Feodora is a community distribution. 100 % Free & Open Source. [Red Hat own’s the Fedora trademark](https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines#Use_by_Red_Hat) and they have several members on the [Fedora Council](https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/council/members) that are employed by Red Hat. The Fedora Council: - The Project Leader: Is responsible for maintaining Red Hat’s relationship with Fedora and vice versa. He has been at Red Hat since 2012, first working on Fedora Cloud and becoming FPL in June 2014. - Fedora Community Architect: Is employed full-time by Red Hat to lead initiatives that grow the Fedora user and developer communities. - Fedora Program Manager: Is the Chief Operating Officer of the Fedora Project. They are employed full-time by Red Hat to manage the planning and release processes for Fedora Linux. This includes schedule management, change wrangling, and providing status reports to the community and to Red Hat. - Fedora D.E.I. Advisor: The Fedora Diversity, Equity, & Inclusion (D.E.I.) Advisor is a liaison between the Fedora Council and the Fedora Community on topics. Current D.E.I Advisor works on CI and Infrastructure team in the Community Platform Engineering at Red Hat. Yeah sure Fedora is a community and opensource project it seems like 2/4 Fedora Council members are always employed by Red Hat reading their role description and currently the two that don’t have being employed by Red Hat in their role description still work for Red Hat, so in reality Red Hat probably has more influence over Fedora than people think even though Red Hat has no control over the decision making with Fedora. That is the reason why I don’t feel it’s a real community project when you compare it to a project like EndeavourOS, Arch or Debian. ---
**Author:** ![pebcak](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/pebcak/32/100472_2.png) [@pebcak](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/pebcak)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2023, 9:38am UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/56 "2023-07-07T09:38:41Z")
> [@anon63071375](#): > > ![image](https://forum.endeavouros.com/uploads/default/original/3X/a/5/a5a852afec328ec6492d7c06ad8ecd08e0a63467.jpeg) What’s your record so far? 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![dalto](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/dalto/32/5577_2.png) [@dalto](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/dalto)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2023, 10:57am UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/57 "2023-07-07T10:57:51Z")
> [@mbod](#): > > Feodora is a community distribution. Yeah…sort of? Not only does Redhat provide the funding for it but the majority of the council _and_ the majority of the steering committee is made of RH employees. Fedora has always been constructed in a way that it can’t easily compete with RH itself. ---
**Author:** ![pebcak](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/pebcak/32/100472_2.png) [@pebcak](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/pebcak)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2023, 2:05pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/59 "2023-07-07T14:05:30Z")
Weekend reading: [https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/f40-change-request-privacy-preserving-telemetry-for-fedora-workstation-system-wide/85320](https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/f40-change-request-privacy-preserving-telemetry-for-fedora-workstation-system-wide/85320) 👓 ---
**Author:** ![keybreak](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/keybreak/32/9257_2.png) [@keybreak](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/keybreak)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2023, 2:12pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/60 "2023-07-07T14:12:58Z")
![image](https://forum.endeavouros.com/uploads/default/original/3X/c/a/cab947c1498fe26142d1321040a3a8765404367e.png) All the medals go to IBM 🤣 🥇 🥈 🥉 ---
**Author:** ![Kresimir](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/kresimir/32/73739_2.png) [@Kresimir](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/Kresimir)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2023, 3:32am UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612/61 "2023-07-08T03:32:10Z")
The only telemetry (and crash reporting) I would approve of would function like this: It’s entirely opt-in. When there is a report ready (let’s say on a monthly basis), it is saved to a local file and the user is notified of it. The file is in plain text, and not encrypted. Then the user can inspect this file and, if he wants to, submit it manually by email or upload it to a webpage using a browser or to some server using `curl` or some other utility. The system with telemetry _never_ dials home, it shouldn’t have this capability integrated in it. If the user can’t be bothered to inspect the report and just wants to submit it manually, he can set up a script to do so himself, it would be fairly trivial to implement. A guide on how to do it could be on the developer’s gitlab or website. A downside of this approach could be that the malicious actors could send fake telemetry to render real one useless. That is possible now, too, but much more difficult. There would have to be some mechanism in place to detect fake statistics, and this would have to be fairly complex. [Previous page](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/redhat-and-fedora/42612.md?page=4)