I love EndeavourOS but I can't handle the updates!

Yeah you got it. Linux is not for you looks like. :rofl:

I guess people didn’t like what I said.

I love Linux but the situation should be improved.

So they’re like Manjaro with own repo. Then it’s not really Arch unlike EOS.

How is it that in Windows I can download latest Firefox but not in Ubuntu or Fedora, because it has dependencies that aren’t updated, so instead they tell you to use snap or flatpak. This is a general problem in Linux.

This is definetly not true. Regarding the specific issue of Firefox (and similar software like e.g. Blender), you can always download the latest binary from their website. As far as I can tell, even repositories for supported Ubuntu versions still have the latest version available: grafik
If you don’t like snap, you can always add Ubuntu PPA’s (or third party PPA’s) manually if you need a specific version. But since you bring up Windows, then snap or flatpak really shoudn’t be an issue. If Windows is acceptable for you, then I don’t see any reason why you shouldn’t be using either of those.

How do you think Windows works? Half the reason Windows is the mess it is (software wise) is because it has to keep god knows how many dependencies for old software. And ever wondered why many installers also install Visual C++ Redistributable or similar stuff? Correct. Dependencies.

You can always manually install your own dependencies and recompile your own versions (in cases where there is no binary available), except maybe in some weird exceptions, but those are hardly the rule.

Fedora and many other non-rolling distributions work the same. You can always get the latest version when you move away from their official repos. This is the same what you do on Windows when you download Firefox from its website. Windows has its own repos (i.e. the Windows store; it even has a command line tool), which similarly host outdated software on occasion.

Also, as a last point: Unless you’re using an LTS version of Ubuntu (in which case you most likely don’t want to update often anyway), you will get a new version every 6 months, which is roughly the same cycle as Windows versions (i.e. major updates; minor updates are available much more often in both OS). This again leads to my original point. You will have to spend some of your bandwidth in all cases if you want to update.

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It’s not that I didn’t like what you said. I have my own issues with Linux and think that there is much to be improved. What you said is just wildly inaccurate.

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Exactly!

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Not true. Depending on the update-freakquenzy. :wink:

Depending on the executed update-frequency, there can be multiple patches of various packages in a given time, e.g. a month.

Sometimes, Arch delivers more than one kernel-update per month, and same with other packages, that often enough “weigh in” on the sum of data to download…

Just sayin’ while not trying to be smart.

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I don’t like anyone disagreeing with my opinions! :smile:
If you dare, post your real world survey with your relevant findings. :wink:
I said not much difference in a month. I mean it is not 100% the same, but is more than 70%. Sloppy counting… :person_shrugging:
Give your numbers! :rofl:

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Common, you are trolling. If it looks, walks and smells like a troll then it is one. :rofl:

I love windows and Mac OS :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

image

I do have and sometimes use a device with ChromeOS.

:speech_balloon:
:troll:

Seriously

(Share Your Desktop - #4925 by pebcak)
:blush:

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I also love chrome OS :innocent:

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I love Gnome. :smirk:

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I knew it :rofl:

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Linux dependency hell is real, just google for it, there are plenty of discussions.

The reason is Linux doesn’t have a stable API/ABI for anything, hence nothing gets shared. There’s absolutely no reason glibc or another binary has to be compiled 100’s of times for each distro/repo/dependency. Thats why fixed release vs rolling is a thing - because fixed release depends on specific versions of so’s and anything new/old is not guaranteed to have the same API/ABI - which is against all standard software engineering practices.

Windows solved dll hell decades ago. It doesn’t keep a new version of shared dlls for everything, only when there are breaking changes for very old versions. MacOS does this too but they don’t really support as many versions.

I’m making a technical point here, of course there will be updates in all OS’s but in Linux and specifically for Arch/rolling release the volume is higher than it could be.

snap/flatpak/appimg exist exactly because of this - because there is such a bad dependency hell that the only way to reliably install/update an app without breaking the system is to ship it in a container like a mini VM.

snap/flatpak have larger sizes, reduced functionality and much higher complexity, and dont address the root cause.

Can you imagine if Windows/MacOS apps were shipped in docker images? Its certainly doable but they have no reason to.

Silverblue has flatpak as its main install method thus they completely ignore dependencies. Efforts like NixOS have tried to address this problem, but its a niche OS and will never be mainstream.

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There is no good compromise. Even if you update often, you sometimes have to update more than a hundred packages, the combined size of which can be quite significant. If you update less often, the size of the updates may be even larger, and in addition, possible package breaks may occur. Is it not possible to perform the updates on a normal wired network instead of Wifi? If not, you should consider using a Linux distribution based on a point release model.

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I have no issues with updating. There is no dependency hell. You just need the proper files being download that are required for the update. Most of these issues happen because some users don’t know how to deal with an error message when they get one in a failed update. They happen because of mirror issues or corrupted cache files. They happen sometimes because a package being updated requires a dependency that isn’t on the system, isn’t being fetched etc. Some users use improper commands trying to update either because they don’t know, or they googled it or they just try what ever. Some users wait too long to update and then it can be a problem for them. Maybe not for the users who know how to deal with the update issue. If a person wants to use Linux they have to learn how. Lots of Linux distributions use different package managers and such and are set up differently. You can’t learn how to cook if you’re never in the kitchen. I don’t do snaps or flatpaks. They give me indigestion! :rofl:

Edit: Btw I love EndeavourOS and all it’s updates. Keep em coming!

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It seems you strongly believe that you know what an OS is and also know how Linux, Win and Mac work. Well… I doubt that. :person_shrugging:

You attempt to compare apples with oranges a donkey on Earth against a donkey-like creature on Jupiter.

There is nothing to compare in regard to their abilities, when they co-exist on the same planet, because the results are going to be totally different if they are on the other planet.

Have fun! :rofl:

:popcorn:

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Thanks again for the great comments and insight!

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I have already observed this, that if you update the packages too rarely, broken packages may occur.

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