If you pick EndeavourOS because you’re new to Linux, you feel that setting up a distro sounds scary, and you want to check out everything Arch can do from a safe distance, you’ll find that the people you talk to in the EndeavourOS community feel the same way. They’ll understand where you’re coming from and will take the time to offer help. If you pick Arch Linux because you think nano is bloat, well, you’ll find yourself among people who are also die-hard vets.
Being “vet” doesn’t mean one should be unfriendly and have attitude that following instructions makes you somehow pro, who’s better than everyone else. Also, If forum rules unironically mention such things as “help vampirism”, and justify their actions based on that, then that community doesn’t really want new members.
Communities should be such that new people feel themselves welcome and this Forum is such a fine example of that. 
That is the beauty of this community and the magic the team has created: YES, Arch, YES, die hard veterans, but NO, none of the “rtfm” attitude of Arch. Quite the opposite, that is. Kudos to xda-dev to highlight the imho most important feature of EOS.
Great article, well written, straight to the point. I agree with 99% of what was said. Except…
That’s not to say the Arch Linux community is openly hostile or anything
I do believe there are people there who want to help the newbies. And generally, those people do just that. But I think they’re far outnumbered by rude, condescending posts/replies that help nobody. Generally speaking, at least as far as seeking help, I think the Arch Linux community is just that… openly hostile.
If information is power, then hostile gatekeepers abound, no matter the subject area. Tradecraft and guilds were notorious for bullying apprentices in the middle ages, and that continues today in many trades such as carpentry or electrical. Medical residency programs are notorious for their treatment of wannabe doctors. Hazing in sports programs and social fraternities follows the same pattern.
It’s human nature to dump on those you perceive as lesser than you – or that you want to keep subservient to you. I like to think that somehow we will evolve or mature our way to supportive, encouraging behaviors…
No one is born like this. It’s learned behaviour!
I used absolutes and so deserve the comment. (“Never use absolutes! They’ll always get you in trouble!”)
But with regards to the topic, there may be more going on than we think.
Nah, it isn’t. It just has an expectation of competence or at least substantial effort. Reading the wiki, reading manuals, don’t take shortcuts like automated installers. If you fly in with a question providing no logs, show a level of knowledge that makes it abundantly clear that you took a shortcut and are stuck now because you were not willing to invest the time learning things: Don’t expect anybody else to hold your hand.
That’s just fair. That’s literally the label on the can. You took the deal.
as someone has turned to/been directed to Arch threads I will agree with you here. Can be a lot of snideness. I for one will never ask a question there.
making yourself vulnerable then getting kicked simply because you are low-hanging fruit is not nice at all.
but it’s the nature of the internet it seems, that we have accepted when it comes to open forums of all kinds. I’ve gotten mugged here about 3 times for my naivety about some things X’s and 0’s. I said ‘ouch’ once but rolled with it because here, the good way way outweighs the rude.
that said I will agree that most ‘noobs’ should not even have chose Arch but I can see that they are earnest. Did their homework? Probably not. Knew to do their homework? After sometime tells them, yes. I only had to be told a handful of times what evidence I needed to bring to any given thread. I did not know this as a newbie.
I can see both sides of this. Contrarily yours–DV 
Once long time ago, kid decided to build a moped. However, he had only passion and not really skills and was so excited that forgot to read instructions booklet for it. However, he found out piece of paper from garage that contained way of building moped. He managed to build it, but since instructions didn’t mention it, forgot oil from the engine, so it cut shut.
He was puzzled how this all happened, so he decided to go local bikeshop and ask help. He pushed his bike into shop and went to counter; behind it but was owner and his friends who were talking about their bikes and how they had also build them from scratch.
So kid told what had happened to his bike and quite reluctantly owner and his friends went to his bike. When they saw it, they immediately started laughing and from their snicker one asked how kid had built his bike. He told them and laughter ended; instead they got angry and started yelling that kids moped was not real moped hence he had followed instructions that were not authorized by Official Moped Office.
Instead of helping, they pissed on to bike, into kids face and pushed him out of the garage, finally locking the door so that kid couldn’t get in. You see, they had forgotten completely that they too had been kids and they too had once build their own moped; they however had read the Official Manual and considered themselves experts, even though in reality they did not understand more than kid.
So what did the kid do? Well, he was sad, decided to take his moped to junkyard and never rode moped again; instead he chose bike and forever and ever he thought that everyone who rode moped were like those guys in the carage from which they had locked him out.
Moral of this story?
Everyone starts from somewhere, does mistakes and doesn’t necessarily understand what they are doing. But we don’t have to be like those guys in the carage; we can give beginner a guide, tell them how to use it and watch them drive on and finally see them helping others.
That kid’s name? - Abraham Lincoln
Also you left out the part when they bury the kid’s puppies behind the shop.
That’s literally what the Arch community does, and they build on of the best Linux resources on the web with that attitude. But they expect you to use said guide, and will not reinvent it for every new person. If RTFM triggers grown ups into infantile victimization sob narrative to deal with the trauma then maybe it’s better for all sides that they don’t engage. 
Sorry, but I’m not the one who got triggered.
That’s literally what the Arch community does, and they build on of the best Linux resources on the web with that attitude.
Well, there are multiple distros who do exactly same thing. I have not claimed that new user should not use guide, but if it’s his first distro, then maybe we should be not so harsh and say things politely and point into right direction and in some cases into probably different distro until they are ready to jump into saddle?
I agree. I’ve gotten real help here, and certainly not on the Arch forum.
Even though I’m still not a very experienced user, and even lazy, I’ve learned a lot on this forum. Things I wouldn’t have learned on the Archlinux forum.
I see an attitude I’d call toxic (not here, obviously, where it’s the opposite) in various Linux groups (not all, but some, yes): “Arch should only be installed manually and blah blah blah.” Completely inexperienced newbies are told, “But install Arch manually using the wiki, at least you’ll learn something.” And usually, “It’s the only “correct and correct” way to install Arch, otherwise you’re a failure,” or “all Arch-based programs are crap,” and so on. Frankly, this attitude is not only wrong, toxic, and doesn’t really help, but it also doesn’t accomplish anything. I’d say these frustrated people can just sit back and watch their own shit.
If I had to install Arch manually, I think the much-cited and praised wiki is incomplete for an inexperienced user. If everything goes well, you’ll end up with a system that won’t boot (I don’t remember all the packages I need), if everything goes badly, you’ll end up breaking the hardware, like rendering an SSD unusable. Honestly, I’d definitely prefer ArchInstall or Calamares. Not always; simpler and more intuitive is a bad thing.
My opinions, of course.
I have this same feeling. At some point for example on installation guide, it simply stops giving you clear advice and assumes that you know how to proceed, because, well, you are installing Arch, you HAVE to know this.
Yeah the arch wiki isn’t as good as people say it is. For sure, it contains a lot of information but it’s not presented in a useful way. You should compare it to the Endeavouros wiki which is smaller, but helps you get things done.
Exactly. That’s how a wiki should be, especially a useful one (especially for a novice).
It’s not about knowing but making a decision how to proceed. Only the user can make that decision after the base installation. That’s a key point of Arch, it puts the user in control of assembling their own system.
Sorry but I don’t agree with you on this at all. Many people including myself can RTFM and still not understand what needs to be done because the manual doesn’t always explain things in a manner and depth that a user can follow because they are lacking the knowledge and experience of those who have written it. And when they do try to get that explanation they get treated like crap in many cases. The Arch Community doesn’t engage. They disparage users, talk down to them and make them feel like they don’t fit in. I have no issue with the Arch Wiki. It contains lots of information. Most of it is very useful but some of it is not explained and they just expect the user to understand what is written when in most cases they don’t. Even with the experience i have I find it difficult at times and I’m surely not going to ask anything on the Arch forum. That much I can tell you. One thing i can say is if EOS forum acted in this manner then it wouldn’t exist.
The Arch wiki certainly isn’t a beginner tutorial. For common tasks you will find ready-to-use snippets, but that is to save you time, not to cut out understanding of what you do. And if people don’t understand what they do from the wiki they have hit the intertubes and research in other places (project documentation, man pages, wikipedia, …). Arch support has low tolerance for “Hey folks, what’s the difference between grub and systemd-boot?” or “How do I turn on Bluetooth?” questions.
Above that threshold the issues become specific, and for those the Arch forum is very good. Tons of times you find threads about unique problems, errors, tasks in the Arch forum.
Running “Arch” in an EOS fashion isn’t that hard, but people have to realize that they have to stay in the EOS community for enjoyable support regarding “below the threshold” questions.
I don’t really see this a being below the threshold. There are lots of people who need a clearer explanation. I mean I couldn’t myself even though i know the difference in how it works explain in words the difference between grub and systemd-boot that would be in a way understandable. If all one does is talk in a technical manner then the explanation cannot be absorbed and understood. That is the inherent nature of some of the Arch wiki. I just don’t feel there is any reason for the way some of those people come across when a user tries to get help.
This is true.
Just my opinion.