Consider prioritising use of Linux LTS

General system EndeavourOS installation
41

From what you’ve said, the DE was the issue for you, so your points here are not really accurate.

Yes, but that’s not my main point. I apologise if I was making this unclear with all my ramblings…
The really import part is that Manjaro, which is sorta kinda based on Arch, and then EndeavourOS are distros I tried without even one full year of prior experience and I don’t think I could be any happier. I started out with Arch as a beginner and stuck to it with satisfaction. And I’m certainly no tech wiz.

42

Why did you switch to Linux?

Also, did you not use pamac while using Borkjaro? And do you still use it? :thinking:

PS: I don’t actually consider Borkjaro as Arch-based. :person_shrugging:

43

Why did you switch to Linux?

First time I tried Ubuntu was out of curiosity. First time I was kinda forced to use Linux was luckily after I discovered Manjaro KDE, and it was because I was unable to use my desktop for a few months in the summer of 2021 and my Laptop couldn’t run the pre-installed Windows system properly, lol
But it ran and runs just fine on Linux. :smile:

And now I’m just using Linux because I’m a lot more happy with it in many aspects. I can’t call it perfect, but nothing is anyway, and Windows is way more frustrating to me and also, as far as I can tell, much less capable for the most part, or at least more difficult to work with. So I honestly fell in love with Linux pretty quickly, and only in part because of KDE (all hail KDE).

But if you intend to continue this conversation beyond this point, I think by now it really is high-time we would move this somewhere else, because I don’t think this has much to do with the whole Linux LTS thing. On that topic, though, can confirm that my main machine can’t run it, so having it be the default would be a bit meh for me, lol

Also, did you not use pamac while using Borkjaro? And do you still use it?

Oh, I did use it… until I stumbled upon pacman -s. Since then I frankly just didn’t bother to install either pamac or even octopi :joy: (the latter of which I discovered through Garuda during the brief period I was distro hopping before landing on Endeavour)

But I also had to use CLI for different things. I mean, don’t ask me what, been too long for my garbage memory to recall anything, but I am absolutely certain that I did use the CLI for other things. And I still do - my .bashrc ain’t 350 lines long for just a nicer shell prompt, heh

PS: I don’t actually consider Borkjaro as Arch-based.

Oooh, that’s what you mean with Borkjaro. Well, anyway, I switched to EndeavourOS not a year later, so my point still stands, in case that was supposed to be an objection. If it wasn’t, I can only comment “fair”, I don’t understand the differences, but apparently they’re rather major. I couldn’t really tell in the few months I used it.

44

The thread I linked to has most of my points on this matter, as well as others’ points of view.

But essentially, your first “Arch experience” was kinda like using Windows on Linux, which made it easier to deal with. I’ve used Borkjaro KDE, which is the reason I asked you that question. KDE can make switching to Linux from Windows feel like the only real differences are some of the apps. Couple that with a “click this button” package manager, and it’s like you’re not even on Linux.

But as you said, these points are unrelated to the post.

45

^ Antique hardware owner approves.

46

Well it seems like Zen and Hardened are gone as selections now, for the Galileo release. I totally get it, too — the extra kernels added some degree of confusion, and Zen, as well hardened has been likely pain points that some novices had failed to avoid. I just find it funny that along with paring back their selection of environment presets (cutting “Community” selections), they’ve also pared down their kernels.

Oh well, nothing a little arch-chroot into the /tmp directory Calamares makes can’t fix.

47

Why not install linux-zen and linux-hardened (and their respective -headers packages after a system install from Arch Extra like any other package?

2 Likes
48

My thoughts exactly

49

Nothing funny about loosing contributors to the project. These were done as we have no one to manage these areas anymore. With a small team like ours Kiss is the standard we must live by. If you want to volunteer your services and help with the Zen and or Hardened Kernel I’m sure we can accommodate.

3 Likes
50

Only as a reminder… EndeavourOS Developers are here. :wink:
We are not the elite hidden group deciding ove rthe heads of everyone, we are always open to critics and suggestions and indeed contribution to make the Installer better and easier to use.

There is a need to keep things simple in the core of the idea on creating developing and maintaining the installer and ISO.

And one main selling point of the installer is to keep it stable easy to use and understand… and not failing as much as we can.

We do review what we do and decide if we keep options, remove them, or improve them, as we are also the people in charge of maintaining it. We can not go adding every little option users want to have, we need to keep an eye on keeping it generically easy to use and understandable for everyone. This can be to remove things, like Community Editions and Kernel Options.

On Kernels i can give some more info in addition what was said already:

For the ISO it would indeed be possible to add LTS Kernel, it would make the ISO a little bigger, it would need to develop a solution to implement, what is calling some bigger changes on the used archiso build scripts and configurations, and indeed calls in for constantly need to maintain this related to changes on archiso and packages. The benefit would be minimal, as dalto already said we would not ship ISO with a broken Kernel, and if community find out issue with the kernel of some sort we would go rebuilding the ISO with updated kernel that include the fix for the issue.

For the selection of kernels inside the installer for online installs:
We had LTS and ZEN there before, LTS is still there as an option:

2023-12-20_14-32
2023-12-20_14-321662×880 135 KB

2023-12-20_14-28
2023-12-20_14-281761×854 147 KB

This have some limitations as if you add a kernel it will set this as default on bootloader to be used… and it is problematic in case of kernel agnostic drivers/packages what makes the install process and needed scripts more complex.
And every extra option is causing confusion.

But we made sure that experienced users always have the option to customize the installation.

You can add packages and even scripts to run right away with the install.
https://discovery.endeavouros.com/installation/customizing-the-endeavouros-install-process/2022/03/
These implementations open the installer for endless possible changes.

Simple add:

linux-zen
linux-zen-headers

to user_pkglist file and installer will install the ZEN Kernel if you want that.

3 Likes
51

I don’t think hardened was ever in the installer. We only removed zen.

Removing zen from the installer didn’t have any relation to the community change. It was about trying to streamline things and make the install simpler and less prone to error.

Ultimately, there was no great benefit to installing zen during the install since it was getting installed in addition to the mainline kernel. Anyone who wants zen can easily install it post-install.

3 Likes