# China's investment in Linux as a viable Windows alternative **URL:** \ **Category:** Other distro news\ **Created:** [April 12, 2022, 7:41am UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973 "2022-04-12T07:41:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![thereillywriter](https://forum.endeavouros.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@thereillywriter](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/thereillywriter)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2022, 7:41am UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/1 "2022-04-12T07:41:18Z")
I’ve been reading a lot since the early-mid 2010s about China trying to replace Microsoft Windows with Linux-based OS’s, including - Red Flag Linux - the company behind this ended up folding, but it is still apparently in active development: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red\_Flag\_Linux](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_Linux) - DeepinOS - this distribution and the associated desktop environment has been discussed quite a lot here - Unity OS - this distribution is based on Debian, and apparently is part of a push to replace Microsoft Windows entirely by 2022 (yes, _this year_): [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity\_Operating\_System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_Operating_System) - Kylin - this actually refers to two operating systems, one developed by by the Chinese government and a separate though related project by Canonical - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kylin\_(operating\_system)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kylin_(operating_system)) When this news first started spreading, I was genuinely excited because it combines two interests of mine: geopolitics and Linux. Regarding Linux, I was mainly excited because I thought it would mean more investment in the user experience for people who want a stable OS with a well developed app ecosystem that works out of the box. That does not describe my use case, but it does describe that of my wife and a lot of other important people in my life. I would also imagine it would describe a lot of people in China, in particular business users and gamers. Therefore, if China, a country of over a billion people, is serious about replacing Windows with a Linux based OS, I would expect to see evidence of this through an improved experience for those users . Despite this, Linux still seems to lag behind Windows precisely in those two areas: business and gaming. It is true that huge strides have been made in gaming, but as a non-gamer I can’t speak to how far Linux now needs to travel to provide a serious challenge to Windows in this market segment. Regarding office applications, I personally, I use LibreOffice and Evolution Mail and that is good enough for my needs on an individual level. However, if my workplace switched to Linux we would seriously struggle due to a lack of alternative to the Microsoft Office suite. So what explains the fact that we’re in 2022 and Linux is still only for tinkerers (like us basically)? I have two theories, and both can be simultaneously true: 1. China has simply not done enough to convince people and businesses to make the switch 2. China may be using Linux as a basis for its Windows-replacement OS, but a significant portion of the software it is using is closed source and restricted to use in China. What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Kresimir](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/kresimir/32/73739_2.png) [@Kresimir](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/Kresimir)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2022, 9:04am UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/2 "2022-04-12T09:04:08Z")
The Chinese government correctly understands that all proprietary software is inherently untrustworthy (except the software that they are the proprietors of). This is especially true in the case of Micro$oft. It does not take a lot of imagination to come up with a scenario in which windoze is being used for corporate and even government espionage. So, like everyone who is concerned about security and privacy, the Chinese Communist Party is looking into alternatives, Linux being the only viable one – just like North Korean government and businesses run completely on Linux. I doubt we’ll see a lot of Free software (Free as in freedom) to result from this, but in my opinion, anything is welcome as long as we can inspect the source code and build it locally. Regarding proprietary software, I trust Chinese proprietary software about as much as I trust Micro$oft, which is to say: not at all. So you won’t see me using it on my computers ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_McBride](https://forum.endeavouros.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@Mr\_McBride](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/Mr_McBride)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/3 "2022-04-12T16:34:56Z")
Micro$oft Office can’t do anything for me that LibreOffice doesn’t already do. Also, IMHO, Linux has a much larger following than just “tinkerers”. IMHO, open source software is the future. I can’t stand waiting for software defects to be acknowledged and addressed with the closed source solutions that the company I work for chooses to use. Sometimes they choose not to address issues. To add to that, I don’t trust closed-source software. Call me cynical, but I view it as just another data collection app that provides other benefits. ---
**Author:** ![thereillywriter](https://forum.endeavouros.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@thereillywriter](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/thereillywriter)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2022, 4:51pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/4 "2022-04-12T16:51:33Z")
I should specify that I’m talking only about desktop Linux here - not servers, smartphones and IoT devices. The reason I use Linux is so I can set up a device that works the way I want it to, and I don’t mind spending days or up to a week setting it up and making sure it is configured just right. This may not describe every single Linux desktop user, but probably fits 90% of them. LibreOffice is perfect for my use case at home - however the integration between MS Office, Outlook, OneDrive and Sharepoint is very important for the industry I am working in and is expected by our clients. Unless Micro$oft offers their Office suite on Linux, I don’t see my industry using Linux outside of the server room. Call me cynical, but that’s just how businesses like the one I’m in think. ---
**Author:** ![ricklinux](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/ricklinux/32/110798_2.png) [@ricklinux](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/ricklinux)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2022, 5:11pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/5 "2022-04-12T17:11:31Z")
I won’t be switching and that’s about all I’ll say. I’d rather use Micorosoft’s Windows if that were my choices. I think I’ll stick with the free open source versions of Linux. EOS sounds really good! ---
**Author:** ![thereillywriter](https://forum.endeavouros.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@thereillywriter](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/thereillywriter)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/6 "2022-04-12T17:16:21Z")
EOS only “sounds” good? 😛 I’m not going to install potential spyware either, but I would consider installing a 100% opensource Deepin derivative on my wife’s PC simply because she likes pretty stuff. ---
**Author:** ![ricklinux](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/ricklinux/32/110798_2.png) [@ricklinux](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/ricklinux)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2022, 5:33pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/7 "2022-04-12T17:33:18Z")
Don’t get me wrong. I like the looks of deepin and in works good on Debian but i don’t trust it either. It doesn’t work good on Arch for me. If they ever get it working properly on Arch I will have another go at it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_McBride](https://forum.endeavouros.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@Mr\_McBride](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/Mr_McBride)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2022, 6:15pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/8 "2022-04-12T18:15:40Z")
Well, I can say that I have used o365 on linux in the past (just to prove that it works). I have zero use-cases that require _ANY_ m$ technology. I’ve been _living_ without m$ for over a year. For me, there’s no going back. Even though the company I work for is heavily in m$ I _could_ work perfectly without any m$ technology (assuming the company has a BYOD policy, mine does not). ---
**Author:** ![thereillywriter](https://forum.endeavouros.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@thereillywriter](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/thereillywriter)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2022, 4:21pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/9 "2022-04-13T16:21:47Z")
I only just learned that Micro$oft announced last year that it’s rolling out Windows 11 upgrades to customers with TPM 2.0 chips: [https://www.makeuseof.com/why-chinese-users-cant-upgrade-windows-11/](https://www.makeuseof.com/why-chinese-users-cant-upgrade-windows-11/) Chinese computers use TCM chips, and so will not get the upgrade. This is another own goal by Micro$oft - punishing their own customers in China. I expect that this will only accelerate Linux adoption in China. ---
**Author:** ![vgaStudio](https://forum.endeavouros.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/v/3e96dc/32.png) [@vgaStudio](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/vgaStudio)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/10 "2022-04-13T19:19:49Z")
It makes sense that China would “have” it’s businesses transition to Linux but I can’t help wondering how they get around MINIX. Big Brother cares little if one uses Windows or macOS or Linux. ---
**Author:** ![thereillywriter](https://forum.endeavouros.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@thereillywriter](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/thereillywriter)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/11 "2022-04-13T19:34:46Z")
Can you elaborate/explain more your point regarding MINIX? I haven’t heard of this operating system until now… ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Endeavour](https://forum.endeavouros.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/h/9d8465/32.png) [@HMS\_Endeavour](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/HMS_Endeavour)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2022, 9:04pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/12 "2022-04-13T21:04:59Z")
> [@Mr\_McBride](#): > > I don’t trust closed-source software. Call me cynical, but I view it as just another data collection app that provides other benefits. Nope, your not cynical. I don’t trust anyone who makes you their product while getting you to pay for the priveilege. ---
**Author:** ![vlkon](https://forum.endeavouros.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/v/35a633/32.png) [@vlkon](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/vlkon)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2022, 9:32pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/13 "2022-04-13T21:32:24Z")
> [@Kresimir](#): > > I doubt we’ll see a lot of Free software (Free as in freedom) to result from this, but in my opinion, anything is welcome as long as we can inspect the source code and build it locally. I wonder how strongly they would follow GPL2 so you could inspect/build that code. ---
**Author:** ![anon50380917](https://forum.endeavouros.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/b9bd4f/32.png) [@anon50380917](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/anon50380917)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2022, 9:44pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/14 "2022-04-13T21:44:15Z")
I trust an operating system developed by a communist state (open source or not) as much as I can throw a piano. However, the same is true for all Microshit software … ---
**Author:** ![Echoa](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/echoa/32/77553_2.png) [@Echoa](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/Echoa)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2022, 9:45pm UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/15 "2022-04-13T21:45:19Z")
> [@vlkon](#): > > I wonder how strongly they would follow GPL2 so you could inspect/build that code. Chinese companies constantly violate GPL or ignore it with zero repercussions… So likely not strongly > [@anon50380917](#): > > I trust an operating system developed by a communist state They’re not exactly communist considering Communism is defined by workers owning the means of production, but that’s another discussion ---
**Author:** ![Pudge](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/pudge/32/17155_2.png) [@Pudge](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/Pudge)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2022, 3:19am UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/16 "2022-04-14T03:19:05Z")
> [@thereillywriter](#): > > Can you elaborate/explain more your point regarding MINIX? > **off topic** > > [http://minix3.org/](http://minix3.org/) > > [https://linuxnetworkk.blogspot.com/2009/04/blog-post.html](https://linuxnetworkk.blogspot.com/2009/04/blog-post.html) > > Just to round things out, Archlinux was inspired by CRUX > [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch\_Linux](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_Linux) Pudge ---
**Author:** ![SearingSunrazeSmash](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/searingsunrazesmash/32/74433_2.png) [@SearingSunrazeSmash](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/SearingSunrazeSmash)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2022, 4:46am UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/17 "2022-04-14T04:46:07Z")
> [@ricklinux](#): > > I like the looks of deepin Then you might like this as well… [https://en.cutefishos.com/](https://en.cutefishos.com/) 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![thereillywriter](https://forum.endeavouros.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@thereillywriter](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/thereillywriter)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2022, 7:46am UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/18 "2022-04-14T07:46:32Z")
I wouldn’t say there’s _always_ zero repercussions: 🤣 [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj04MKykmnQ&vl=en](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj04MKykmnQ&vl=en) ---
**Author:** ![vgaStudio](https://forum.endeavouros.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/v/3e96dc/32.png) [@vgaStudio](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/vgaStudio)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 12:39am UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/19 "2022-04-15T00:39:02Z")
@thereillywriter I assume that you have googled MINIX by now and if you did, you will understand my reply. ALL governments, especially communist ones, can access our machines if needed. If I were China, I would definitely deploy Linux everywhere possible and only keep Windows where cooperating with global business partners is a must. Example: If someone orders parts based on a SolidWorks file, then Linux is of no use. But for an administrative system that needs to manage 1Billion + people, Linux would be the clear winner. To bring this back on topic, yes, I believe that China will invest quite a bit in all areas as it transitions to Linux. Will they opensource their code? I doubt it but then again, time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![Echoa](https://forum.endeavouros.com/user_avatar/forum.endeavouros.com/echoa/32/77553_2.png) [@Echoa](https://forum.endeavouros.com/u/Echoa)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2022, 5:34am UTC](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973/20 "2022-04-15T05:34:34Z")
yeah ive seen that before, but thats really not a repercussion. That had absolutely zero impact in that long run and i dont think thats the first time shes done something of that nature if i remember right. so they give some youtuber a code drop, that means nothing if the companies dont continue to release source code. Rockchip has improved some over the years but they too still suck and people have griped at them forever. Very few companies actually see any harm in violating GPL even outside china because tbh GPL enforcement is a joke. [Next page](https://forum.endeavouros.com/t/chinas-investment-in-linux-as-a-viable-windows-alternative/25973.md?page=2)